Congrats then. Just 35k (+taxes I’m guessing) in that department is great. I’m not being a good mustachian lately. In fact I’ve been so bad in 2019 that I haven’t updated my numbers since 2018.
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@dbu Why not in Switzerland?
@Ed_Waadt thank you! I wouldn’t worry about it : )
I was looking at your document… I love the phrase “Bank Greed” haha
Hi everyone,
I’m a 37 y.o. man from the Geneva area but I’ve been traveling abroad UK and Australia mainly in the past 10 years. During this time, I opened my first trading account in 2012 but didn’t invest more than 3000.
I had no strategy and some bad experienced on speculation put me off for few years.
I enjoyed Mr Money Mustache articles since 2016 and subscribe to his newsletters then the MP distribution list since 2018. I’ve mainly been reading the blog before.
I’ve been back to use some VIAC 3rd pillar vouchers since 2019 but no one worked.
I’m determined to move my costly 3rd pillars from BCGE this year but a bit worried with the 1 - 6 months latency …
I used Neville VIAC referential code and it was my way to give back to the community for all the nice advices.
I’m also register to another English CH Forum and one French but I prefer the richness of the investing threads of the MP forum.
See you around on other topics.
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Welcome @FunnyDjo thanks for sharing!
Sorry that I didn’t elaborate initially.
First, disclaimer: This depends of course on the style of life you want to live. (and how/if your circumstances will change in the future)
Personally, I would argue that planning to fully retire for 40-50 years (if you do so at 40) with 1M could be statistically dangerous. (Even in the US)
For Switzerland, please see the discussion here on the forum whether 4% SWR is the rule to follow in CH.
And check here for how others have been thinking about their FIRE numbers (in or out of CH).
Also, here a solid analysis: FIRE? Here’s Why The 4% Spending Rule Does Not Apply to You - PWL Capital
Hello @dbu thanks for the reply. I chose the word fire instead of retire for this very reason, but perhaps I could have articulated myself better
Correct me if I am mistaken but by fully retire you mean zero work. The idea is to choose the work you want based on happiness/societal benefit, not the work that maximizes earnings. In the US “retirement” conjures up images of zero work and days of golf and bingo. Not sure I am interested in either of those ; )
Will have a look at the links, thanks!
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Yes, I am arguing the whole “RE” part of “FIRE” is used semantically incorrect. 
People often just replace their “regular 9-to-5” job (which they might not like / want to run away from; or reduce working hours on it) with another activity which still brings them income.
That’s why we have so many FIRE bloggers that earn revenue through their websites/books etc. - it can be seen as just another “job” in my eyes. 
Depends what one personally defines as “retirement”, I agree.
I do however love and fully aim for the “FI” part of it - to only exchange my time for money if, when and on what I want, and to not have to depend on a “standard” job. 
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Fully agreed @dbu. Perhaps the vocabulary needs to be updated. Fortunately I can go back and delete the “re” from my first post so we are aligned ; )
Have a good day!
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Hi! I am 30, moved to Switzerland 6 months ago. I read Rich Dad Poor Dad when I was 15 and have been aching to invest since I was 22. But due to my expat lifestyle and allergy to administrative work, I didn’t feel equipped to make long term investments. All investment books recommend holding your portfolio long term so I was really unsure of committing to something. Also, I wanted to save up for entrepreneurial projects or real estate investments.
Thank to this blog and the book “Personal Finance for Dummies” that I picked up at a $ sale, I was able to open an IB account recently and start my first etf portfolio.
I am so thankful to this blog and all the information here. Hope to learn with you all and contribute to this community.
For now, I chose a standard VTI+VWO+VEA portfolio. Is there any risk in having Vanguard only etfs? How can I further optimize my portfolio? My goal is 10-15 years.
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Hello All,
Thanks MP for creating a great community here.
I am 35 yo. Married with 2 kids. Did my PhD in Zurich and got the investing bug right then because I was able to save ~2k/month. Never got into index funds unfortunately or fortunately (will come to this later).
Started by investing 5k via UBS in Credit Suisse (2010). Kept adding while the stock went from 45 CHF -> 22 CHF and I lost ~ 40% of my portfolio. Sold out in 2012 and started seriously studying investing. Spent ~ 3 hours/day while doing my PhD on reading books of all kind (behavioral, investing, psychology etc) and annual reports. Only do stock picking, no indexing.
My goal is to become financially independent in 10 years. I like my job and if that stays then there is no reason to leave it. But, I would like the freedom to never worry about it.
I am not that frugal. I believe in balance. I am not going to be this young ever again and I like to spend money on things that I enjoy e.g., traveling, eating out, buying a lot of books etc. My yearly budget is approximately CHF 100k and as long as I am below that I don’t really care. Fortunately, I still have a > 50% savings rate because of luck and good market fit.
Similar situation here, although about half the salary 
Mind sharing which domain your PhD was in or in which industry you work?
PhD: Informatik (Theoretical Computer Science)
I work in a “tech” company. There is a large variance in pay. Ergon, AdNovum etc will pay ~ 130k, while trading firms will probably pay ~ 300k. I had got some offers across industries but I picked something I would not hate and pays well. I really don’t want to work in a trading firm.
I should have guessed - I often forget that I am the only one without a CS or Software Eng. degree on this forum
But it sounds like you’ve found an interesting and quite lucrative niche to be in. Good on you.
Welcome to the forum.
How has your portfolio performed since 2012? Beating the index?
I’m just curious, I don’t want to be criticizing you for stockpicking.
Performance is tricky thing, especially because most of the serious money I saved was in the last 4 years after the new job. Still, that is not an excuse for not measuring yourself.
I have performance numbers starting end of 2010, when I got serious about learning investing. I sold out Credit Suisse in 2011 (i said 2012 before) and it was a -30% year for me. So, this year is included in the numbers.
From 2011 all the way to today, I run a “fair” test by comparing two scenarios
- What my portfolio did vs
- The money I saved for the year, I bought S&P500 on the first trading day for the next year. I also include dividends WITHOUT taking out 20% withholding taxes.
Anything else would be quite tricky to compute esp because the performance numbers for SPY will be tricky to find.
Fast forward to today, I would have been 1% richer I had invested in S&P500 and paid no tax on my dividends.
What I can def observe that I did quite bad in the beginning 2011-2015 but have done quite well from 2016 onwards (compared to S&P500).
In general, I am not looking to outperform the market. I invest in things that:
- I understand reasonably well,
- Is run by an owner operator e.g., IBKR is ~ 80% owned by the founder (Thomas Petreffy),
- Can reasonably return > 15%/year. Some years will be good, other bad. But, it will “catch up”.
I have a VERY concentrated portfolio of 5 stocks. Because, it is unlikely I can track more companies in detail.
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Hi everybody,
I’ve discovered FIRE through Mr. Money Mustache, then searching for swiss specific topics, stumbled upon this blog and, guess what? It has a forum! This is awesome, so I’ve followed y’all for about a year and, out of curiosity, finally registered.
Hope you’re all safe and sound. I’m looking forward to meet you around a topic or another.
Edit: A big thanks and kuddos to Mr. MP, by the way, this is a great resource and setting up the forum required a dose of courage for which I am very grateful.
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Also a US citizen 
Yay
A nice option is to just reduce work time… 80%… than 60% and keep the salary at 140 kCHF works perfect for IRA eligibility while gradually moving toward early retirement. I used to target 35 for my retirement, but it was too long to wait… also realized I love working! Solution? Just work a little less and keep salary at a comfortable level for as long as it’s fun
Good luck out there!
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International school teacher here in the little tax haven of Zug.
I (37, British) arrived in 2011, my wife (35, USA, also int. school teacher) in 2012 (we met here). Child (girl) arrived in 2019.
I got into investing via Andrew Hallam’s books about 3 years ago. He then came to our school to present and I met him - lovely guy.
I did a slightly risky thing three years ago and lent a friend (albeit a close friend since school days) a sizeable chunk of money (about 80k chf) to invest in his company which flips houses. He offered me 1% per month - he turned out to be trustworthy 
. Since then, anything I’ve saved, together with the interest he has paid me, has gone into VWRL and VT through Int. Brokers. My wife does the same. We’ve tried to put more money into VT ever since the Coronacrash.
We also both use VIAC as a third pillar since 2019. We got a bit stung at the start of this year as we put our permitted sum into VIAC in January (on the logic that the stock market generally goes up, so the percentage thing to do is invest funds sooner rather than later). Should have waited a month. Never mind.
I have two small apartments in England that I bought just under 10 years ago that bring me rent of 1025 GBP and 900 GBP each. Those were excellent investments. Long story as to how I was able to afford them - maybe I’ll go into it later. It made me realise how advantageous it can be to have investments in different countries - I pay minimal UK tax on the profits from those apartments because the first 12000 GBP of profit is tax free. It also goes to show that the rental prices:purchase price ratio in Switzerland is far more renter-friendly in Switzerland than it is in England. House prices in Canton Zug in particular are very high.
I don’t have any date targeted for retiring, but my goals are to live frugally, set myself and my wife up well financially for retirement, leave our daughter (and any future sprogs) a decent sum to set themselves up, and continue to travel extensively (I view that as an investment in life experiences).
I started documenting what we spend and save in August 2018 (that’s generally when international school contracts start and finish). I was only going to update my spreadsheets once a year, but I see people here doing it every month. Maybe I’ll do it quarterly in future.
We save anywhere between 50k and 70k depending on how extensively we travel.
Finally, to Mr. MP, a huge thank you for your research on the estate tax treaty between Switzerland and the USA. I’d been unsure of what to do about funds in VT. Much appreciated!!
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Hi everybody,
I’m in my mid-30 swiss citizen, have almost no investing experience (last time was in may 2008 and we no how that went 
). The FIRE movement, mainly the FI part, has been on my radar scope since 1-2 years and would like to invest my money a bit more intelligently.
For the moment I’ve been looking at different robo-advisories (truewealth - thank you @_MP, selma, yova and swissquote ) to get the feeling without going through brick and mortar banks and their fees.
If anybody has feedback, it’s welcome!
Looking forward to contribute to this community.
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