When do we reach the bottom of the dip? (2022-24 Edition)

Days like yesterday and today back to back make my imagination go wild about what’s going on in the head of market participants. There’s a thesis in psychology to make on the topic. I’d gladly support whoever makes it.

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Lets hope so :partying_face:

I just cannot overcome this market-timing bias yet, so I kept some minor dry powder. Can’t help it, gives me some childish pleasure to strike at low prices :see_no_evil:

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When/how will you deploy your dry powder?

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Don’t fool yourself and look at prices in CHF! We are still well between 7th and 29th of March.

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SSON limit order at 35% below all time high kicked in today. It is a good fund and I am confident that in the long term this will prove not be a falling knife. I have another order at -40%…

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VT under 90’s already good for me, I don’t want to wait too long, otherwise I’ll risk sitting on my powder for the next few months :sweat_smile:

BTW, I noticed being a buy & hold investor, I really enjoy bears (let’s buy more!) as much as bulls (I’m on track!) :grin:

And, maybe facing a recession, I plead guilty to some serious Schadenfreude: No more voodoo-magic actively-managed funds throwing the dart at random stocks and still being successful like in the past decade. A majority of them will bite the dust.

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Just as side-note: usually, we explain people that it doesn’t matter in which currency you buy your ETF. Which it doesn’t.

So comparing the VT prices in CHF now doesn’t make sense, from my point of view. Yesterday (during the day), we reached a 1 year low in USD at 90.96. Yes, you would have been able to buy more VT shares if USD didn’t gain more strength compared to CHF. Still, the amount of shares you received for your US dollars was the most during the last 52 weeks :slightly_smiling_face:

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It’s correct that the ETF currency doesn’t matter (ignoring broker fees). However, even if I buy an ETF in USD, I track it in CHF as that’s the most important currency for my expenses. It doesn’t make sense to track an ETF in USD just because I bought it in USD, as the ETF listing currency is indeed irrelevant.

The question is whether this is relevant to the likely majority of us who don’t keep USD cash. If I buy VT now I have to exchange CHF to USD (or take a USD margin loan but that would be betting on currencies). I.e. what matters to me is how expensive VT is in CHF.

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Yes, but to get USD I have to exchange CHF. And I earn and count my wealth in CHF. Like a majority in this forum. That’s why I suggested that forum members should look at prices recalculated in CHF. If you count in USD, of course you are right.

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So you change CHF to USD, then you buy VT with USD, but you track your VT shares in CHF? My base currency for my IBKR account is USD, which from my point of view is easier to track.

Yes, that is correct. I still think that using the approach “look at the prices in CHF” is the right approach here. What we are currently seeing is USD getting stronger again. So following your logic, you would rather wait a bit longer to buy VT (considering you have parts of portfolio not invested yet) just because CHF has lost against USD? You’ll might end up losing a good opportunity to buy VT for a cheaper price (in USD) by doing so. Who knows where CHFUSD will stand in 1/5/10 years.

And yes - before you’re going to stone me: I know that this is some sort of market timing. Unless you have portfolio thresholds reaching a trigger to buy more VT.

To go back to the original question: the bottom of “the market”, which for me is VT in CHF, was on March 7th. And I don’t think we will go lower in next 4-6 months.

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Yes. Why would I track my investments in USD if my expenses are mainly in CHF? E.g. I could invest in VWRL and trade in EUR instead of investing in VT. It would make absolutely no sense to me to change my tracking currency if I were to switch from VT to VWRL. It may be different for people that are planning to or at least considering retiring outside Switzerland. However, even in that case the ETF listing currency is still irrelevant for tracking.

I’m not planning to increase my stock allocation. If I had a threshold (e.g. drawdown since ATH) to invest more, I would indeed track it in CHF. Because it doesn’t help me if it is cheap now if I had USD cash. I don’t hold USD cash, so for me it’s only cheap if it’s cheap in CHF. I.e. I would have already bought 2 months ago (YTD low in CHF) or would wait longer.

It would likely be different if I used technical analysis but that probably doesn’t make much sense for global ETFs anyway.

The 30-day forward rate for USDCHF is currently 1.75% p.a., matching the difference in short term interest rates. The 5-year forward rate is 10.86% (2.08% p.a.). The reality of future exchange rates may be quite different, of course. However, the long term expectation is certainly that CHF keeps getting stronger, assuming CHF interest rates stay below USD interest rates.

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I personally expect the market to fall a little further.
I have two pending orders at ~$89 and ~$87.
We’ll see how the market reacts next week :grin:.

Soon to be 89 and 87 CHF :stuck_out_tongue:

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To me, the whole currency issue is just a zero-sum-game. Currencies always appreciate or depreciate in relation to other currencies. So, if you buy the whole world (eg VT), it shouldn’t matter what currency you’re buying it with. But I’m no expert on this, maybe I’m getting this totally wrong. Anyway, I’m very much looking forward to buying some cheap bargains regardless :grin:

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It’s better to laugh than to cry :joy:.

As long as a dividend is always paid, it smoothes the performance of the USD.CHF. We’re still talking about the long term, right?
In any case, it’s still better than having an uninvested dollar balance in IBKR (or any other account/deposit)

I’d laugh, a stronger USD takes us closer to more ability for the SNB to raise rates out of negative territory (though the stronger EUR would be the real deal). I, for one, can’t wait to get there.

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What will you do when that happens?

I’ll celebrate, take a deep breath and enjoy the decrease I expect in the insane workload I currently have due to the insane amount of construction permit demands that are deposited for oversized complexes “for primary residency use” (good luck finding primary resident buyers for those overpriced appartments), often on hardly suitable land. :wink:

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You’re not buying the whole world - you’re buying just the part of it that is exchange-listed. Which is quite skewed towards the USD.

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