Tax declaration

[Bojack]

Hey guys, I still have to send my tax declaration for 2017. I have never done it. The manual is there, but the size of it has effectively kept me away from it. I thought that at least the first time I will just let a professional handle it, but with a rate of 200 CHF/hour and maybe 3-4 hours of work, I would be looking at a hefty bill.

So, is there anyone here who has done the tax declaration for canton Zurich? Should I do everything on paper, or is there some software you definitely recommend? I will need to declare my ETFs at CT and IB. I would also like to know what can I deduct from my income to pay less taxes.

[derpinator]

We did have a little bit about how to fill it at school but I mostly just ended up using the software and sometimes looking up the relevant parts in the manual (the Solothurn version has a feature that lets you view the relevant part of the manual for a field).

You might want to give the software a shot and ask when you get stuck. You can still have a professional look over it at the end if you want.

[ma0]

Is it a “normal” tax declaration? Use then their software:
https://www.steueramt.zh.ch/internet/finanzdirektion/ksta/de/steuererklaerung/software.html

It’s not that difficult to follow the wizard. You just need dict.leo.org to translate a couple of words here and there. Once you have it, check the final result for stuff you believe is missing.

The only difficult part is when you have to write your ETF/Funds. You need to write when you have bought them or all their automatic calculations are off.

A friend of mine pays 50chf to have it done though.

Deductions:

• interests (bullsh#it since there is a weird calculation between interests and another fix amount. )
• Krankenkasse + expenses
• commute to work
• lunch at work
• 700chf bike to work
• business courses
• child’s stuff

[Bojack]

@derpinator

You might want to give the software a shot

Yeah, but what software?

@ma0

Is it a “normal” tax declaration?

I don’t know, when is it not normal? I have permit B and over 120k income.

@ma0

Use then their software

Cool, so Kanton Zurich provides official software? And is it the best thing to use? So why do they send you this big book with all the rules, if there is the software? I guess they hate trees

@ma0

You just need dict.leo.org to translate a couple of words

No worries, I know German

@ma0

700chf bike to work

I do bike to work almost every day, but I also have a Jahresabo for ZVV, for convenience and rainy days. Can I still deduct it?

And one more question: Will I need to send the DA-1 separately, or can I do it with this software too?

[ma0]

@Bojack

Yeah, but what software?

Well, check the link. It’s under A1,A2…A4, depending on your OS.

@Bojack

I don’t know, when is it not normal? I have permit B and over 120k income.

Yes, normal.

Regarding their software, the first year they have to send you all the stuff. Once you use the software (or the website!), you won’t receive all that stuff…phisically. The book is still available electronically with the software.

Regarding transport, you can deduct the 800chf of the ZVV + 700 pauschal for the bike.

I have no idea about the DA-1, but if I remember correctly, hedgehog said you have to send it elsewhere, so separately.

[derpinator]

@Bojack

I guess they hate trees

All bureaucrats do XD.

Mine did ask me if I want to receive it digitally next year though, so maybe next year It will be better.

[Leap]

I live in Zurich and I use the online-version of the software. https://www.steueramt.zh.ch/internet/finanzdirektion/ksta/de/steuererklaerung/zhprivatetax.html

I think it’s really awesome. I have used the downloadable client in the past and I felt like the online version was a lot more understandable and assisting.

It’s new, I think this is the second year one can use it. Thats why if you have never done it electronically they will still send you the paper-based version. I get one single piece of paper, telling me which code to use for this year.

[Bojack]

Hey! That’s really cool. Always nice not to have to install anything. Is the online version fully capable, no missing features? (ones I might need, I mean)

[Leap]

None that I knew of. In the beginning theres a wizard that determines which features you need and then disables the rest so you don’t have bother.

[ma0]

I’ve never tried the online version. I’m not sure if I can hack around as much as the offline one and if they track my changes as well. I also like to see the pdf result which is easy to parse for mistakes and stuff.

[Leap]

If you like the offline version better thats completely fine. It saves your inputs pretty much immediately though and you can download the result as PDF aswell. It also estimates what you will have to pay.

[varepsilon]

I’m almost sure you need to choose between deducting the public transport or 700 pauschal for the bike.

[ParaStachian]

You can deduct both the bike and the public transport: see this article (in french)

Le TF autorise la déduction fiscale du vélo pour aller au travail

[Bojack]

Well, I gave the online privateTax app of canton Zurich a try. First of all, it’s too bad it’s all in German. The language is very technical. Even after translating to English I have trouble to understand what the hell do they mean.

Question 1

Ausländische Wertschriften mit pauschaler Steueranrechnung oder Rückbehalt

Google Translate says it means “Foreign securities with flat-rate tax credit or retention”. Do they mean withholding tax?

Question 2

wenn die Verpflegung durch den Arbeitgeber verbilligt wird (Kantine, Personalrestaurant,
Barbeitrag, Essensgutscheine usw.) und dem Arbeitnehmer trotzdem Mehrkosten gegenüber
der Verpflegung zu Hause entstehen, pro Arbeitstag CHF 7.50, bei ständiger
auswärtiger Verpflegung im Jahr höchstens CHF 1’600

That’s really subjective if the canteen food is more expensive than cooking at home. How are they gonna count this? Also, I get back lunch cost from employer as Spesen. Can you declare this thing twice?

Question 3

Tatsächlich bezahlte Einlagen, Prämien und Beiträge für private Kranken-, Unfall-, Lebens- und
Rentenversicherungen sowie Zinsen von Sparkapitalien (gemäss Wertschriften- und Guthabenverzeichnis)
sind in begrenztem Umfang abzugsfähig.

So I can deduct my healthcare insurance contributions and 2. pillar pension insurance?

Question 4

Kosten für die Verwaltung des beweglichen Privatvermögens

Can you deduct anything here?

Question 5

I did not find any place to declare currency on bank account. Bargeld is not that. You don’t need to declare money on current account as wealth?

Question 6

I did find the DA-1 form inside the app. However, when I enter the asset (VT), it can never find it in the Verzeichnis. The same asset worked in the share declaration. Any ideas?

[hedgehog]

@Bojack

Ausländische Wertschriften mit pauschaler Steueranrechnung oder Rückbehalt

Securities with foreign withholding taxes for which you’d like to get reimbursed out of double taxation treaties

@Bojack

That’s really subjective if the canteen food is more expensive than cooking at home. How are they gonna count this?

If there’s a canteen per the checkbox on Lohnausweis they automatically assume it’s cheaper. If it’s not cheaper than food on the street maybe talk to your employer so that he doesn’t check this box next time

Also, I get back lunch cost from employer as Spesen. Can you declare this thing twice?

Then it seems you don’t have any Mehrkosten and probably can’t deduct anything here. How is it reported on Lohnausweis though? If nothing about food is there and you don’t live next to work, I’d just check 3200 here and see what happens. The deduction is supposed to cover cost of buying food from the street if you can’t have a lunch at home (=live too far).

@Bojack

So I can deduct my healthcare insurance contributions and 2. pillar pension insurance?

Yes
No - it should have been already deducted on Lohnausweis

@Bojack

Kosten für die Verwaltung des beweglichen Privatvermögens

Can you deduct anything here?

0.3%, max 6k of values of all securities - without any proofs. We discussed this exact deduction just recently in some other thread about welath tax

@Bojack

I did not find any place to declare currency on bank account. Bargeld is not that. You don’t need to declare money on current account as wealth?

All bank accounts should be declared in Wertschriftenverzeichnis. Especially foreign ones who will rat you out anyway

@Bojack

I did find the DA-1 form inside the app. However, when I enter the asset (VT), it can never find it in the Verzeichnis. The same asset worked in the share declaration. Any ideas?

I just filled manually all the stocks they didn’t have in the database by ISIN number

[Bojack]

@hedgehog

How is it reported on Lohnausweis though? If nothing about food is there and you don’t live next to work, I’d just check 3200 here and see what happens.

On my Lohnausweis there is nothing entered under Spesen. Since I am working away from my designated working place every day, I get pauschal Spesen of 35 for every day of work. You think they could accept a deduction of 3200?

@hedgehog

0.3%, max 6k of values of all securities

Cool. That’s 0.3% including money accounts?

@hedgehog

All bank accounts should be declared in Wertschriftenverzeichnis

Ohhh (facepalm) . I assume this includes money positions at brokers. What about Revolut? I didn’t have much there, but it was spread over 5 different currencies. Any risk if I don’t declare it?

@hedgehog

I just filled manually all the stocks they didn’t have in the database by ISIN number

The problem is, the Wertschriftenverzeichnis worked just fine for VT, but DA-1 does not work with anything I try to enter. I don’t know how to fill out this form without the wizard…

[hedgehog]

@Bojack

You think they could accept a deduction of 3200?

Worth a try IMHO

@Bojack

Cool. That’s 0.3% including money accounts?

No, I said securies only

Ohhh (facepalm) . I assume this includes money positions at brokers. What about Revolut?

Anything of value in principle needs to be declared

]didn’t have much there, but it was spread over 5 different currencies. Any risk if I don’t declare it?

It’s only wealth tax, which is tiny, so they won’t care. People routinely don’t declare things like rental deposit accounts

Generally the line is: you can do any mistakes or “mistakes” on your tax declaration, and as long as you didn’t forge any third parties’ documents (this is a big no-no) and didn’t evade more than 300k of taxes per year, it’s just a simple tax evasion and not criminal to do in any way. If they find out, the punishment is they’ll make you pay the missing taxes with late interest (about 5%) and maybe 30-100% of these taxes as a fine. If the amounts are small (like tens to hundreds CHF) they most likely won’t care.

@Bojack

The problem is, the Wertschriftenverzeichnis worked just fine for VT, but DA-1 does not work with anything I try to enter. I don’t know how to fill out this form without the wizard…

Declare ISIN number, value as of 31.12 in CHF per the official exchange rate, sum of all the dividends gross as income at exchange rates of dividend dates, and 15% of them as the value you’d like them to pay you back. Maybe attach 1099 or whatever tax form you get from IB as a proof of US withholding, but it’s not strictly necessary for DA-1

[Bojack]

Thanks again!

@hedgehog

Declare ISIN number,

I know the Valoren Nr of VT, because it popped up with the Wertschriftenverzeichnis lookup. I guess it’s better to use it instead?

[hedgehog]

Yeah I guess you can use that

[Bojack]

@hedgehog

Declare ISIN number, value as of 31.12 in CHF per the official exchange rate, sum of all the dividends gross as income at exchange rates of dividend dates, and 15% of them as the value you’d like them to pay you back. Maybe attach 1099 or whatever tax form you get from IB as a proof of US withholding, but it’s not strictly necessary for DA-1

I see two columns:

• Pauschale Steueranrechnung
• Steuerrückbehalt USA

Let’s say I made a Bruttoertrag of 1000 CHF. Do I put 150 CHF in both fields?

By the way, when I validated the form in order to send it, it said that it cannot find the asset I put in the DA-1 form.

Wertschrift erfassen / Kurslistentitel suchen, DA-1. Bitte wählen Sie eine Wertschriftenkategorie oder führen Sie eine Kurslistensuche durch.

I cannot submit the declaration with this DA-1 position without a match…