Tax declaration

[hedgehog]

Pauschale Steueranrechnung

This is the compensation for foreign withholding tax. You can claim full 15% for american stocks. For other countries percentage may vary depending on tax treaties: part you get to claim here (typically also 15%), part you may need to request back from the original country. Here are some examples: https://www.nzz.ch/finanzen/die-renditen-aufpolieren-1.18338031

Steuerrückbehalt USA

Not applicable to you, this is the additional 15% withholding for american stocks done by swiss brokers

I cannot submit the declaration with this DA-1 position without a match…

Sure you can, don’t use the wizard

[Bojack]

Hi again guys. I submitted my declaration, but I had a look at the final calculation, and one thing does not make sense to me. Maybe you can clarify it for me.

In the Lohnausweis you have the following positions:

8. Bruttolohn 115’000
9. AHV 10’000
10. BVG 5’000
11. Nettolohn 100’000

Then, according to the graphic in the Wegleitung, you are supposed to put the Nettolohn in the field 100 - Haupterwerb. Then you put your AHV+BVG in field 280. Finally you get your Nettoeinkommen in field 310, which using only these numbers would be: 100’000 - 15’000 = 85’000.

How does it make sense? You deduct it once from the Bruttolohn, then you deduct it again from the Nettolohn? Did I do it wrong?

Edit: I have noticed that it says these are additional deductions, hence I have removed them and resubmitted my declaration…

Beiträge an die AHV und IV, soweit die unter Ziffern 1 und 2 der Steuererklärung deklarierten
Einkünfte nicht bereits um diese Beiträge gekürzt worden sind

But a different question: which reports from CT and IB did you supply? I put:

• CornerTrader: Financial Statement (has Account Summary, Client Activity, Open Positions)
• Interactive Brokers: Activity Statement (has Cash Report, Open Positions, Withholding Tax, Dividends)

Should this be enough for the tax authorities?

[wapiti]

I wonder also which statements I need to send.

I have also finished my declaration, it was easy until I need to enter stocks and fill R-US and DA-1.
The fields were misleading and I had to enter multiple time the same info.
There were also differences between the interface and pdf.

I wonder if the tax office receives the pdf or a specific tax format when the tax is sent electronically.

[hedgehog]

How does it make sense? You deduct it once from the Bruttolohn, then you deduct it again from the Nettolohn? Did I do it wrong?

Well have you even read what you’re filling? Field 280 is for “Beiträge an die AHV, IV und 2. Säule, sofern nicht unter Ziff. 1 und 2 abgezogen”. If it’s already fully deducted on Lohnausweis, you can’t double deduct it again here

Should this be enough for the tax authorities?

You don’t need to attach any bank/brokerage statement until they ask, except for the certificate for additional US withholding by swiss broker for your DA-1 if you want this money back. That one they want upfront because it means they owe you more money than normally, it says so on the form i’m sure. If you don’t hold any US stocks/ETFs at a swiss broker, then nothing is needed. I certainly wouldn’t attach any financial reports! If you feel like you absolutely just have to attach something, I’d attach the form about the amount of US withheld taxes - I think it’s called 1099 or 1042 or something like that and should be downloadable from IB around this time of year if you’ve had any money withheld for your US stocks

Also pillar 2/3 official certificates if you’ve done any contributions must be sent upfront with the tax declaration

[Bojack]

Well have you even read what you’re filling?

The whole Wegleitung has 50 Pages and it’s not my mother tongue, and even in Polish I have trouble to understand legal stuff.

You don’t need to attach any bank/brokerage statement until they ask, except for the certificate for additional US withholding by swiss broker for your DA-1 if you want this money back. I certainly wouldn’t attach any financial reports!

Thanks, @hedgehog! I would have attached everything… But if I don’t attach the statements from CT and IB, then how will I prove that what I declare is true? They really don’t need it?

In DA-1 they write (Google translated):

Together with the original form DA-1, all income statements or tax statements of all positions declared in form DA-1 must be submitted

So do I need to attach something or not? If yes, then which report would that be in IB?

In my Freigabequittung they write I should attach the following:

Nur die folgenden Beilagen zum Wertschriftenverzeichnis:

• Steuerauszüge (falls darauf verwiesen wird und nicht bereits elektronisch importiert)
• Ertragsabrechnungen auf Festgeldanlagen
• Ausschüttungsbelege für nichtkotierte Titel
• Originale Lotteriebescheinigungen
• Kauf-/Verkaufsbelege von veräusserten IUP-Titeln

So if I have no interest at PostFinance, then I don’t even have to print that? So the only thing I put in the envelope is the Freigabequittung and Lohnausweis? No printouts from Brokers or Banks? (I have Irish ETF at CT and American at IB).

BTW how do you report currency positions at CT or IB? They are not money accounts, are they? I put it as “diverse”.

it was easy until I need to enter stocks and fill R-US and DA-1.
The fields were misleading and I had to enter multiple time the same info.

Be careful at this point. First I put the VT in my Wertschriftenverzeichnis, then I put it again in DA-1. Then I noticed my total Vermögen is much too high and then I saw that the form copies the total value from DA-1 to Wertschriftenverzeichnis. TLDR: What you put in DA-1, don’t put in Wertschriftenverzeichnis, that’s how I understood it.

[hedgehog]

The whole Wegleitung has 50 Pages and it’s not my mother tongue, and even in Polish I have trouble to understand legal stuff.

The text that you had to read was a short sentence right there on the form

Thanks, @hedgehog! I would have attached everything… But if I don’t attach the statements from CT and IB, then how will I prove that what I declare is true? They really don’t need it?

No. Only if scrutinized later

In DA-1 they write (Google translated):

Google translate of what? There’s no such thing that you write on DA-1 nor on instruction to it. There is a sentence on the instruction about additional US withholding that I already told you about

So if I have no interest at PostFinance, then I don’t even have to print that?

Even if you had any interest you don’t need to attach anything about it, only if they ask (they won’t)

BTW how do you report currency positions at CT or IB?

It doesn’t really matter much how you report it, but I specified cash positions last time as current accounts (Kontokorrent).

TLDR: What you put in DA-1, don’t put in Wertschriftenverzeichnis, that’s how I understood it.

That’s correct. It’s detailed in the instructions and the forms. You put each stock only onto one of the forms: DA-1 if you want your money back from tax treaties else WV.

[Bojack]

The text that you had to read was a short sentence right there on the form

Sure, if you point a finger at one sentence and give me the context, it’s easy. But I was to read and understand the whole 50 pages. It’s possible to overlook something and make a mistake…

There’s no such thing that you write on DA-1 nor on instruction to it

When I finished my declaration, I got two things to print: Freigabeguittung and DA-1 form. The first page of DA-1 form is titled “Beiblatt für die Einreichung mit Fensterkuvert”, then comes the Bändliweg 21, Zürich address. (BTW this is where I sent this document, I guess that’s correct?)

Notice the underlined sentence on the bottom. Well, I guess we’ll find out if it was ok not to attach anything, because I’ve already sent it.

[1000000CHF]

Funny enough, Zug just asked me for list of dividends and withdraws from my broker accounts (I have ETFs at CT and IB). Otherwise, they don’t need my tax declaration as I’m taxed at source.

I have however a question about US forms. Do I need to fill anything for them? I received from IB a form “Foreign Peron’s U.S. Source Income Subject to Withholding”:

Do you know if I have to fill that and send it to IRS? Are there any other US forms that I have to fill for US (somebody mentioned before W-8BEN)?

[Bojack]

Hi guys, so I got a letter from Steueramt Kanton Zürich. They write, that they will not pay me what I declared in the DA-1 form (I declared dividends from VT). Here’s their explanation:

Eine pauschale Steueranrechnung auf diese Fonds-Erträge kann nicht gewährt werden, da eine detaillierte Aufschlüsselung dieser Ertragswerte (spezifische Aufteilung der Erträge in Zinsen, Dividenden, Quellenländer und den entsprechenden Quellensteuern) nicht vorliegt bzw. von den Fonds-Gesellschaften (oder Zahlstellen) nicht angeboten wird.

Anyone has an idea what this means? So Vanguard does not provide the exact breakdown of taxes paid in all of the countries, so they cannot calculate how much I already paid? But I only paid the damn tax in USA… Is this what you were referring to @hedgehog when talking about splitting VT into VTI and VXUS? But even if I do that, I will be able to reclaim VTI (single country), but with VXUS there should still be a problem.

Would it help if I attached any document? Why did nobody on this forum (except hedgehog) write about this problem? Did none of you have problems with DA-1?

[ChickenFat]

I have VTI (and had some more stuff) and declared it on the DA-1. I also attached all the divident declarations from swissquote. Got my 15% back.

[Bojack]

Well, that’s good to know. It also makes sense and alignes with what @hedgehog once wrote. VTI is US-only, so all the taxes apply to the US. But what about all the guys who have VT, were you able to claim back the withholding tax?

And what if I do switch to VTI + VXUS, will I be able to get reimbursed for VXUS? It suffers from the same problem as VT, it collects shares from multiple countries.

In the end, I don’t understand why is that a problem? The US charges 15%, it’s clear, so why does the Zurich tax office not pay me back?

[wapiti]

I don’t understand the decision from Zurich and am strongly convince they are wrong. I think you should write them back by specifying you would like to recover only the US withholding tax, not the others.

[Bojack]

I gave them a call and they said, in more simple words, that they need some evidence that it was withholding tax (they cannot do it “pauschal”). So I sent them my activity statement from IB per email, and they wrote that it’s fine. Phew. So in the end, you need to attach something if you want them to pay you back.

[ma0]

sorry, but I think that’s what @hedgehog said here or somewhere else.

1. No need to send evidence/attachment to normal taxes
2. Need to send evidence/attachment to DA-1.

I personally would send all stuff for all declarations. Less worries.

[wapiti]

Each Canton is different, for exemple Waadt explicitly tell you not to send anything.

[1000000CHF]

Hey, so Canton Zug actually screwed me a bit. I wanted to be honest citizen of Zug and I decided to write an e-mail to tax authorities and inform them that even though I’m taxed at sourced and shouldn’t declare taxes, I can do it for them as I invested significant amount of money last year (and actually I’d like to submit DA-1 to reimburse US dividend tax). In response they send me forms:

• WV
• K
• BA
• LV/LV+
• SV/BZ/VO/PB/WB/BK/UK/GZ/MZ/VZ (yes, it’s one form)
• KDBK

I went to them and asked if I have to fill all of these papers - they didn’t respond anything and just gave me list of local tax advisors in Zug. Perfect! I asked them then if I can submit these papers electronically using eTax.zug software - and they said no.

My question to you guys is - is WV and DA-1 enough? And should I get a tax advisor or should I try to do it myself manually? What happens if I made a mistake - do I get fined?

Thanks in advance for any help!

[ChickenFat]

I usually call them if I have a question and it works well. But maybe I only ask simple questions compared to your situation. Usually if you make a mistake and don’r really really try to cheat, they will probably or get more information from you or make you pay the extra tax or even not care at all.
You only go to jail if you falsify documents.

[1000000CHF]

Thanks! I’ll try to call them, maybe they will tell me more what should I do.

[hedgehog]

if I have to fill all of these papers

[zg ergänzende veranlagung] -> “Wann wird eine ergänzend ordentliche Veranlagung vorgenommen?
Ein ergänzendes ordentliches Veranlagungsverfahren (EOV) wird nur durchgeführt, wenn das an der
Quelle nicht unterworfene steuerbare Einkommen mindestens Fr. 2’000 oder das steuerbare Vermögen
mindestens Fr. 100’000 beträgt.”

Did you earn 2000+ Fr not-already-taxed-at-source income last year or possessed 100k+ taxable wealth as of 31.12.? If no, don’t bother, waste of time and they won’t refund anything either.

and actually I’d like to submit DA-1 to reimburse US dividend tax

15% will stay with IRS no matter what, the question is only do you have to pay more than that to CH or not as the refund will come out of your own CH taxes.

They should have tables somewhere with the answers, ZH calls them Anrechnungstarife. not sure what’s the keyword for ZG.

What happens if I made a mistake - do I get fined?

If it’s a plausible honest mistake and you fully cooperate should they inquire about it, no

[1000000CHF]

Did you earn 2000+ Fr not-already-taxed-at-source income last year or possessed 100k+ taxable wealth as of 31.12.? If no, don’t bother, waste of time and they won’t refund anything either.

But now I don’t have the choice I guess? They told me that they will give me time to the end of the year and I have to send the tax declaration…