Should I buy TSLA shares?

you clearly are pro-car (and that’s fine!), but let me dissect your answers into a hypothetical world of robotaxis.

I had that at my previous place and I got so fed up I bought a Vespa just to commute. :slight_smile:
My SO works 50km away, it’s a fix 47 minutes by public transport or a random time if you drive between 40 and 80 minutes. Which one would you choose? Or let’s say Basel to Zürich, twice a day?

So, in this case you’re unlucky, so you drive… Some other person might be lucky. The question is the balance or ratio of these two.

This would not change with Robotaxis. You can also book a Mobility vehicle ad-hoc if there’s one. Alas, the provider is optimizing for utilization. Same would probably hold true of a 100k robo-car instead of a 20k Renault Clio.

This would probably be similar, without you having to walk. The car needs to come to you (that also can be time consuming, depending on traffic).

Imagine what people would do in a robo-car if not even a driver is there. :wink: Same-same.
On the contrary though, the station I’ve been using in Zürich has surprisingly clean (cleanliness level “OK”, not top notch) cars. Maybe it’s a coincidence.

Same-same. They have to be mass-produced utility vehicles at first. Same “differentiator” badge would apply, people would still scoff at the “stupid robotaxis”. Something like we used to mock AG plates. That’s also probably is just a fairytale and not a data-based fact.

That’s way to many IF’s. Uber exists today (just checked, 20CHF from here to get to downtown, car here in 3 minutes).

  • It can’t possibly get much lower on price / current price level doesn’t hurt that much
  • It can’t possibly get cleaner as the human driver will today stop you from being nasty / clean the car himself before the next guy gets in
  • it will not be safer for a long while than human-driven cars.
  • it will not be there significantly quicker at your doorstep.

You clearly need your own car and are happy to pay for it and that’s fine, have it your way. :slight_smile:
(I’m the same, BTW, but trying to use less fossil fuels whenever possible)

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Some interesting data from canton Zurich:

So even in Zurich 60% of transport is done by individual vehicles and not public transport (I have to admit, even I was shocked that public transport is not used more).

Oh and I read that Uber pays their drivers around 25 CHF per hour. This money you can save. Then there’s the general lower cost from operating an EV vs ICE.

So if we calculate the value of FSD as the salary of the driver that is being saved, then we get:

fsd_value / year = 25 CHF / hour * 12 hours / day * 365 days / year = 109’500 CHF / year

I pulled that number out of thin air.

But generally speaking a km is at least 0.50 CHF all running costs calculated fix+variable - the more you go the cheaper it gets. Looking at some non-prius taxis, this number might be much higher, there could be taxi licenses, etc. Dunno, I’m not a taxi driver :man_shrugging:

It might be that 4 CHF out of 5 is actually the driver’s salary. Uber only charges you around 3CHF a km, the service takes a 25% cut, leaving you with 2.25CHF a km for income + maintenance of your car. I don’t see how this could be cut down significantly from here.

that’d be quite an employee :wink:
(you work around 2200-2400 hours a year, minus vacations (10%) = 2000 hours = 50k.)
But yeah, robotaxis could work 24/h, it doesn’t hurt them.

Ehh… don’t you see this is the point? A robotaxi can do the job of 2-3 people. A typical person will work for 8 hours a day, 225 days in a year. That’s 1’800 hours in a year. A robotaxi can go non stop from 06:00 to 22:00, day after day. Let’s say it goes 15 hours over 360 days for easy calculation, we get 5’400 hours, exactly 3x the working time of a typical human.

If this typical human driver costs 50’000 CHF per year, then you can save up to 150’000 CHF by not having a driver. And these savings can be split between the passenger and the robotaxi operator.

I see your point and the potential - have seen it all along. What I’m debating is the market need for a robotaxi in the first place. I can’t see a real problem a robotaxi would solve that is today not solvable on the SBB-Mobility-Uber-OwnCar line in terms of cost vs comfort.

What’s the source for the graphic? (Is it per km?)

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Funny you would say that as except for Japan, it doesn’t get better than this on this planet.

Right… Where do you think those limitless number of cars would then disappear before and after rush hour?

The reason that mobility cars are not enough is probably not just utilization but also limited space to park them.

But even if this would be true and a massive amount of cars would suddenly appear and disappear into oblivion (a huge parking field in Aargau), they would massively be underutilized between 10-16:00 on Weekdays and most nights except Fridays-Saturday. Then everyone would use them as they are so super cheap, so with time there wouldn’t be enough of them… And the whining starts again :wink:

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Testdrove the Tesla 3 Dual Range again. Now I’m fully convinced that they are lightyears ahead of the rest.

Still checking our charging options. But I’m 90% sure that we will pull the trigger :smiley:

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In what ways?

And which other new EVs (or ICE cars) did you cross-testdrive to compare against?

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Compared it to my 2004 Polo and nothing else.

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Just joking (kind of). We also tried the new Hyundai i30 and I also drove the Golf 7R and the Mercedes A45 AMG of two friends. So I know there is more than a 2004 Polo.

While the i30 is a good car, it didn’t cause any wow-effect. Felt outdated compared to a Tesla 3. The Tesla feels like a advanced space shuttle :smiley:

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I had that feeling almost 2 years ago, when I got in a Model 3 shortly after passing my driver’s license. I did the whole training + exam in a Mini Cooper and never drove a different car. I was like… “whoa, this is on another level”. And imagine that this car has been unveiled in 2016, 6 years ago! Really forward thinking.

I think the Cybertruck will also make this impression. But at this stage Tesla has achieved financial stability and is less focused on bringing new epic cars, because that’s not where the big bucks are. They want to replace labor, first drivers, then factory workers, and so on.

Just think that legacy carmakers have almost no margin on ICE cars, and they make up for it in spare parts. Now if one EV robotaxi can replace 5 ICE cars, will people want to fix old cars or just dump them altogether? And these cars are often not bought with cash, but with credit, and they serve as collateral. What will happen when people dump ICE cars and nobody wants to buy them anymore? Used car price drops, loans will not be covered. I think we will see an epic collapse of the legacy car industry, one bankruptcy after another.

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The i30 is a no-hassle cheap compact worth about a third of a Model 3, new. About 1/5 used. Apples to Oranges.

The Golf R (depending on generation) is a sports car for petrolheads, clearly not for the ones who would buy a Tesla. Same for the A45.

You should go testdrive (and test-pack!) the Ioniq5, the Kia EV6, the Honda CRV (albeit it’s a hybrid not an EV) and the Polestar 2. Only then would you have a fair comparison.

In all fairness I think the Model 3 is probably the best price/performance of the lot, but I wouldn’t buy it as it’s a sedan and the option to pack your stuff in there is limited. I would gladly buy the Model Y if I were to shell out 60k for a car and bear the consequences of depreciation. Alas, I’m not going to :slight_smile:

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btw that’s the reason I haven’t test-driven any Teslas yet. it’s dangerous. :wink:

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Except for the Polester 2, the design of the others cars are horrible… But I guess, it’s a matter of taste and colors :stuck_out_tongue:

And then, would you like a car that’s called like a night club dancer?

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Only the Polestar 2 would be fun enough to drive (0-100km/h) which has about the same price as the Tesla 3. But less range and looks that I don’t like. Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6 look weird aswell.

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