Pillar 2a: multiple vested accounts and what happens when you start working again?

Banks, Insurances & Third Pillar
1

Hello Mustachians,

I went through the several 2a pillar related posts but couldn’t find an answer, so my apologies if I have missed such post and duplicating topic.

Context
I’m in between jobs, with 2 moths off, and I have to inform the pension fund of my former employer where to move my money. I don’t have information about my next pension fund provider yet (also I don’t think my US employer has any idea about it yet, but more to this in a bit).

Therefore I was thinking to open a vested benefit account where I can invest my 2nd pillar (Freizügigkeitsdepots), like valuepension.

I have also learned, as explained in this article by moneyland, that it is possible to open up to two separate vested benefit accounts, and that they must be in two different providers.

Questions

  1. If I move my 2a to valuepension (or split in two between valuepension and viac for example), once I start working again in two months, will I be obliged to move all my 2a money into the pension fund selected by my new employer, or can I keep them and just join my employer pension plan for the contribution that will come from the new job? (I think @Cortana was talking about something similar in an old thread, but I couldn’t find it right now).
  2. If I can keep it, great, if not: considering my employer is US based, but will give me a CH contract via a CH legal entity, I expect they do not have any agreement and for sure no previous pension fund plan in place. Would it be feasible if they say “we agreed to give you 8% 2a pillar contribution, can’t we just wire them to your current pillar 2a account for simplicity sake?”… would something like that be possible or those vested accounts can only be used while no active pilar 2a contribution from actual employer is in place?
  3. If I cannot keep the vested accounts in place once starting the new job, then probably does not make any sense to open any new account. If I can, what are other mustachian options other than valuepension and viac? I have also heard about PensExpert, but haven’t checked myselft yet (maybe we could have a pinned page in the forum where we list the “current alternatives” and update every ~4months as reference? just thinking out loud)

Thank you all

2

Did you at least negotiate with them the pillar2 contribution? (that can make a large difference in total comp)

I think Payslip questions: new job, new bureaucracy, a lot of shit covers more or less the same things.

3

Yes.

No. In case of doubt, you’re obliged to provide them the documents and information. Also, the new pension fund can request the funds from the former.

Practically though, enforcement is lacking.

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4

I though I read somewhere the over-obligatory bit does not need to be transfered.

5

I’m “investorn00b”, not “jobn00b” :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:. Jokes aside, yes agreed during negotiation phase on 8% of total gross salary, but thanks for checking .

Although I had forgotten about that useful post (Sept 2020 feels like 10y ago), there are discussed mostly UVG, KTG etc., not really pillar 2a and not the situation I’m discussing here (except if I have missed something).

7

You can invest it through VIAC

8

Thanks @Cortana but I would rather do it only if I officially can, not because there is lack of enforcement.

9

yes, but apparently only while it is in a “vested account” state, and no longer once you start working again therefore joining your new employer’s pension fund, as per the link from @San_Francisco (thanks, you killed my dreams with one word :P)

I guess the only “hope” left is if valuepension could act as pensionplan too, let’s say my employer has no pension plan agreement in place and lets me choose? Am I dreaming too much? I’m gonna read more from the @San_Francisco’s links

10

So I actually spoke with Valuepension and

  1. They confirmed what @San_Francisco posted that I cannot keep the two in parallel, leaving my current 2a in valuepension and starting over with a new pension fund
  2. My new employer cannot contribute to valuepension as if it was a pension fund, they are very different thing

The only hope here is a hybrid solution, which it may be that the new pension fund ask to bring over only the mandatory part to their plan, instead of the entire 2a sum, although this is less common. But in such case I could leave the non mandatory part with valuepension and continue the normal pension plan with whatever provider my employer will have.

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11

Make sure to split in advance though. I don’t think you’ll be able to do a partial transfer.
If you can, ask you employer if you can get a 1e plan, not sure if it’s easy to have them let you pick tho.

(E.g. finpension has: https://www.yourpension.ch/)

12

So, I wrote to Finpension and they explained me that their “Yourpension 1e” solution cannot be used as a full pillar 2a pension provider, but only for the extra mandatory part.

So, considering that one can split the pillar 2a in two vested accounts (in case of not working for example), then the flow should be:

  1. split the current pillar 2a in two vested accounts (e.g. Valuepension)
  2. when starting working again, transfer only the mandatory amount to the new pension provider (e.g. Axa)
    2.1) if the new provider will request all, too bad (I need to investigate this better to understand if they can force me to transfer more than the mandatory part only)
    2.2) if possible to transfer only the mandatory part, leave the remaining in the vested account (e.g. valuepension)
  3. have the mandatory part of pillar 2a contribution going to your new pension provider (e.g. Axa) and the extra mandatory to Yourpension (1e)

I still want to have more clarifying talks with them, but as it is sounds a bit of an overkill to be honest.

Ideas and advice welcome as always

13

how much is the mandatory amount? how is it calculated?

14

It can be found on the annual statement of your penion fund, if not, you can ask them how much the mandatory and how much the voluntary (often called “Sparkapital” in German) part is. You can’t calculate the mandatory contribution.

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15

Anteil BVG/Part LPP in your statement.

16

You can calculate how much you contribute, but the contributions grow over the years with the interest you receive.

17

On finpension’s help page, they do talk about splitting mandatory vs. non-mandatory although it’s “less common” but “preferred if the extra-mandatory part is not or does not have to be included in the new pension fund”. So it does seem that this is technically possible and not just because regrouping is not enforced when being employed again or am I missing something?

I suppose it’s better to split 50/50 if one is certain to not work again, and split mandator/non-mandatory if one may work again, right?

18

It is possible if your pension fund benefits exceed your new pension funds maximum buy-in.
Pension funds usually provide only limited insurance coverage and based on that allow on a certain maximum amount be transferred in.

In other words: you have to transfer to your new pension up to the maximum they allow.