Payslip questions: new job, new bureaucracy, a lot of shit

Hi Mustachians!
I have few payslip related questions for you!

I changed job recently and I’m fighting with “the real world” of employment in Switzerland after many years of a kind of “compensation and bureaucracy heaven”.

Now, my payslip mentions two insurances I wasn’t used to see (a.k.a. pay) there with my previous employer:

  • UVG: accident insurance. I see I need to pay the not-related-to-work part, which in my payslip is more than 200 CHF per month… is that normal? My Health Insurance would extend my sickness insurance to cover accident for ~10 CHF/Month. Can I do anything? Can I cancel this insurance? According to this I can’t… what the fuck! Do I really need to pay 200 CHF/month for accident insurance?
  • KTG: this is the “salary compensation payment insurance” in case of sickness. It’s another 100+ CHF per month. Is this also mandatory? In case it’s not, is it “such an amazing deal that I should not let it go”?

Sorry for the rant, but hitting the real workplace after years of being spoiled by american companies is not easy :slight_smile:

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I don’t have these items in my payslip (CH company).
Just:

  • AHV contribution (5.3%)
  • UI contribution (1.1%)
  • Pillar II retirement + risk contributions

There is an extra item, but marked as “Employer’s contribution” - NIAI contr. ER - that might be something related to insurances?

Edit: read this?

If you work for the same employer for at least 8 hours per week, you automatically receive accident insurance (according to UVG) through that employer – and can therefore take out health insurance without accident cover without hesitation.

Are you working <8h/week for them?

200 per month? That sounds like an insane amount but it’s proportional to the salary. Assuming you work over 8h per week it shouldn’t be there at all.

I have employed someone temporarily and as a private person even I had to pay it for them - (edit: I checked again and I was allowed to deduct some from the salary). My accountant took care of payroll so I don’t remember every detail.

I just checked and the premium for UVG was 670 CHF per year for a salary of 30’000 p.a. If the premium is linear, that would make it 200+ per month for a salary of about 120 kCHF.

The person was working with an hourly salary and after December I reported the actual paid amount and then the premiums were balanced.

KTG: if I remember correctly, this is something the employer can take to secure itself in case the employee is not able to work but the obligation to pay salaries continues.

What’s the job like? Are you doing contracting or considered an independent?

Edit: I just read this bit from the link above:

You pay the premiums for non-occupational accident insurance yourself – normally as a direct deduction from your salary.

I have to admit that I have been spoiled without knowing it because my employer covers all of it.

No, I work full time. But the comparis link you posted says that if you work >8 hours/week the insurance must be offered from your employer, but:

The premiums for insurance covering occupational accidents and illnesses must be paid by the employer. The premiums for non-occupational accidents must generally be paid by the employees themselves. The employer pays the full premium and then deducts the share for non-occupational accidents from the employee’s salary.

Now my question is… do I have a say in the insurance contract? It seems the rules are meant to protect the employee, but if the employer chooses a shitty insurance you’re forced to pay a lot :expressionless:

The UVG is 1.2% of my monthly salary, according to the payslip.
Why the hell is an accident insurance connected to the salary?

I also knew that the KTG should be on their side…

I’m a full time employee but i work for a company who doesn’t have basis in CH - so I’m having a stupidly slow conversation via email with an unskilled person working for the intermediary company (agira.ch) that handles bureaucracy for us…

Apparently it also covers the lost earnings if your are unable to work. The cover is much better too: no deductible etc.

First, you can’t choose :slight_smile:
UVG has always been linked to the salary. It should have been the case at your previous job.

Yes, but the employer insurance offers higher coverage and no deductible.

In fact, KTG and UVG are on both sides. You pay half.

Yes, but another “but”:
The >8h part comes after that “generally” part, so IMO it should be valid in your case, i.e. covered by employer (not employee, deducted as % of salary).
Perhaps that is only valid for internal permanent contracts, not external contracting via agencies? Dunno.

So we’re paying 400+ CHF/month to get an accident insurance without a deductible… what a deal…

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That’s a bummer. Sorry about that. I would at least check if the KTG part is legit or not in your situation.

My payment slip:

Base salary 6916.65
AHV (5.275%) -364.85
ALV (1.1%) -76.10
UVG -29.20
KTG -38.90

So I’m paying 68.10 per month on a 83k base salary. 400.- sounds excessive!

I checked my total compensation report and it values the UVG around 1200 CHF (occupation and non-occupational) per year. Somehow I suspect it’s not the full amount because it includes worldwide coverage. It’s not on my monthly pay slip because the employer covers it all.

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403 is total contribution, I pay 201.50 CHF, i.e. 50% of the total.
I’m saying that paying 403 CHF/Month for an accident insurance is a theft.
I’d rather tell my employer “Please, just give me your 201.50 CHF and I’m going to self insure with Mutuel for 7 CHF/Mo” but apparently I can’t.
It seems UVG is mandatory by the law. It seems it’s a law that was supposed to help the employee “if someone employs you they have to pay you accident insurance!!1!” but it’s actually hurting me. Why the fuck it’s proportional to the salary? It’s not a tax, it’s a fucking accident insurance! Medical costs of fixing my eventual broken leg don’t depend on how much I earn.

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As stated before, your salary is also insured (to an upper limit of CHF 148’200 unless the limit was increased recently). I’m not saying it makes sense that you have to pay the premiums but that’s the reason it’s proportional.

If it’s any consolation to you, maybe this discussion has made people more aware of their total compensation package when comparing potential employers. It certainly did that to me and served as a good refresher on employer/employee obligations.

In my case it is (I hope I took proper French counterparts):

accident hors entreprise - 0.3115%
indemnité journalière en cas de maladie - 0.1650%

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Wait, isn’t the KTG covering exactly this?
Or KTG covers only lack of salary during sickness but only after 90 days and no longer than 2 years, while UVG covers lack of salary because of an accident?
Isn’t it ridiculous?

Good point. But those details are hard to negotiate before signing a new contract. I’m sure if I told my employer to cover this before signing the contract I’d have had that covered. It sucks, because it’s ~300 CHF/month of unexpected expenses that I would have happily avoided. Plus, the Pillar 2 plan sucks a lot. It just covers the mandatory part, 500 CHF/Month. And I pay 340 CHF/Month contribution, which means 680 total, 500 goes to my pension, and another fucking 180 in “Risiko costs”.
Again, how many insurer do we need to forage?

Yep. U = Unfall and KTG = Krankentaggeld. I don’t know why the salary has to be insured separately for each.

This is the promised land of insurance.

That does suck because when added up it’s quite significant. I hope there are other aspects which make it worthwhile.

I don’t have experience negotiating insurances in or out but I always try to talk about total compensation when talking to recruiters. At least it gets them and me thinking about the “valuation”.

Thank you for your answer.
Yes, I learned that I should have gone deeper with negotiation.
I negotiated my total compensation (200k/Year), but I allowed myself to be soft on the “under the hood” perks and benefits.

For me one of the biggest point is pillar2, apparently there’s massive differences between employers.

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