Good alternatives to VIAC and Finpension for pillar 2a vested account?

Banks, Insurances & Third Pillar
1

Hello fellow mustachian,

A few years ago I did a similar post, where asking for clarification about if/how to split the pillar 2, and all the related things the law allows to do in the situation of leaving a pension fund. I did my homework and back then I split my pillar2 into two accounts: half went into VIAC and the other half into Finpension.

Now after two years I’m leaving again and I can do the split again (yes, it’s all legal, because the new pension fund asked 0CHF to be brought in so I was able to keep the two). I’m not sure if to split again in two more different providers, so ending up with 4, or keep one of the two (VIAC in my case, as I’m honestly not super happy with Finpension as of now).

By checking the forum I saw there is also Frankly as similar alternative, does anyone have other recommendations on other providers (or feedback about Frankly?)

Thanks a lot
Cheers

2

If I remember correctly, tax authorities don’t accept pillar 2 withdrawals split over more than two years. And even if they do, depending on the amount, it may not make sense if you also have multiple pillar 3a accounts to withdraw over the same 5 years. I.e., from a tax perspective, spreading pillar 2 across more than two accounts is likely not useful.

Anything you’d like to share?

3

Thanks Jay for the answer

I’m not sure I’m following. Could you be more specific? what do you mean?
What I know after talking with the folks over Axa and VIAC and reading a post from Finpension about the subject, no one raised concerns over more than 2 accounts (but I admit it is unusual because pension. funds usually ask you to bring at least the compulsory part over when you join them, so far luckily it wasn’t the case for me in the last job). But given your point I’ll definitely go back and do more homework first. Thanks a lot.

So while I do take time to study and “customize” a bit my own investment, for the pillar 2 I try to follow the options from the more expert, which is the options I get offered by the providers. I wasn’t super happy from the beginning but never had too much time to study a new strategy and change the default one. So that is one thing, not happy with their default strategy.
the second is the user experience from their website/app. It’s getting better but is 2023 and if you have poor user experience (like ease to access all data and information in a quick, easy and understandable way), is not great. On this aspect VIAC is by far superior to them in my opition.

4

According to FZG Art. 4 Abs. 2bis, you’re legally required to transfer all of your vested benefits to the new pension fund when starting a new job with a pension fund. This means that most people¹ can’t legally get to a point with more than two vested benefits accounts.

As you’re obviously aware, at least some pension funds do not enforce this. However, if this results in a tax advantage, e.g., by buying more into your pension fund than legally allowed or distributing pillar 2 withdrawals over more tax years than would have been possible by following the law, the tax authorities can come after you for tax evasion (or even tax fraud if you lied on any form).

¹ One exception is if you worked multiple jobs at the same time, left them and didn’t start a new job after that point. Or if the salary or pension fund of your new job is sufficiently worse such that the new pension doesn’t allow bringing in all of your previous pillar 2 money.

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5

how can you do that? how is the execution to accomplish this?

as far as i know your employer add your 2nd pillar contribution directly into the pension fund, you can add additional extra contribution into the 2nd pillar, but you have to show all your 2nd pillar contributions (ones done by your employer and ones by u) in your tax report. Don’t show them in your tax report does not make sense cos then u could not get any tax benefits.

6

Ok, now I get your point, it definitely makes sense. Thanks a lot for the extra clarification, much appreciated.

7

From the maximum buy-in amount allowed according to pension fund regulations, capital in vested benefits accounts must be subtracted. The relevant buy-in forms of pension funds should require you to specify how much money is in vested benefits accounts. If you e.g. declare in such a form that you have no vested benefits accounts, proceed with a maximum buy-in and deduct that from taxes, the pension fund may accept it (as they don’t know about the vested benefits accounts) but it would be tax fraud.

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8

There’s a limit to the extra contributions, you might go over the limit if your current 2nd pillar doesn’t know about your vested benefits accounts.

(Though iirc they do ask you about them when you do a buy-in)

9

but if you exceeded the limit cos you added in more than one vested benefit accounts, this will be shown in your tax report so obvious, don’t?

i pay someone to make to my tax report, so I don’t know how it work very well in detail

10

No, the limit is related to the fund regulations, not the tax office. The fund doesn’t get your tax reports.

11

i thought the limit was like the 3rd pillar one,
so silly that pension funds add limitations more restrictive than the authorities ones

12

I’m not completely sure of the details but I think it’s normally based on the current pension fund contributions and works as follows: They calculate the pension fund capital you would have right now if you had the same salary and pension plan for your whole life (or since 25). And then subtract your actual capital. The difference is the maximum buy-in. I don’t expect pension fund regulations to be allowed to go beyond that but I haven’t checked the law.

13

That’s also my understanding, so if they don’t know about your vested benefits account, they can’t substract it from the buy in amount.

14

Sorry folks, I feel this thread is going a bit off topic, would be great to go back on track, i.e. any feedback or suggestion on pillar 2a vested account providers besides VIAC and Finpension?

Sorry to play the bad cop :slight_smile:
cheers

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15

That’s the only two I heard with low fee/high equity.

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16

I left my job not so long ago, and split my Pillar 2a into 4 parts**, so was looking for ideally 3 to 4 providers, for diversification reasons ideally not Viac nor Finpension because my pillar 3 is there already.

Basically I found nothing else that could compete and in the end put 3 parts into Viac/Finpens FZ and 1 part as cash to a Kantonalbank FZ. I am also satisfied with my 3a experience at Viac/Finpens so that helped my decision. Frankly was too expensive, etc etc.
There was one provider https://www.tellco.ch/berufliche-vorsorge/freizuegigkeitskonto/ which I had last on my shortlist, but didn’t go for. Maybe that’s one you could consider?

** splitting into 4 parts was possible because the company where I was at split had split my Pillar 2a into 2 Stiftungen. Each of these Stiftungen I was then able to split in 2 → 2x2=4. All legal.

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17

Thanks a lot, I’ll definitely take a look at Tellco, I did not know about it.

Maybe things changed since when you last checked, or maybe I’m missing some costs, but since you mentioned that you left “not so long ago”, here is what I see:

  • VIAC: 0.43% total costs (link)
  • FP: 0.49% (link)
  • Frankly: 0.45% (link)

is there any other costs you were referring to I may be missing?
thanks

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18

I’m also looking to split my Pillar 2 into 4 with different providers to provide some diversification and allow for staggered withdrawals. I will use Viac and Finpension, but looking for 2 others. Ideally with high equity component as I would leave to invest for the long term, but one could potentially just be bonds/cash as I will use one to offset against my mortgage.

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19

Are you sure you can even split it into 4 pieces? Tjat’s only possible in special cases such as the one from rolandinho.

Are you going to be self employed or retire early?

20

Yes, exactly. I will be retiring early.