Pants down: yearly spending!

I’d argue 3a is not an expense, it’s your money from left pocket to right pocket - still your own money, just now invested.

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Monthly fix cost budget for a couple living in Geneva area:

Libellé CHF
Rent and heating 1524.00
Extra heating and water 8.67
Internet Fiber 44.15
Power 30.00
Swiss - Taxe Serafe - Radio et Television 27.90
Personal tax 2.10
House insurance 17.20
Laundry 20.00
ASLOCA 43.78
Cautionfees 1.67
TOTAL CHF 1719.00
My system is not as detail as the other for the remaining.

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My average saving rate is stable around 64% without kid but I expect it to drop dramatically as we are expecting a chlid beginning of Q2.

Daycare will cost a fortune but I expect joy.

A bit of conservative projection for a family of 2.

Safe Withdrawal Rate (SWR) 2,70%
Target Annual Expenses 55 000,00 €
Target Net Worth to FI 2 037 037,04 €
FI ratio 45,81%
Guardrail to go back to work (drop 30%) 1 425 926 €
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Wow, I am sincerely impressed.

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Nice, well done!

Btw how do you save 115%? :grin:
What’s your formula for the savings rate?

(Btw2 you can append the year in front of month for the last x axis, should be easier to glance)

Still not at ease with the charts but I will try to improve it with the years.
The 1 bedroom flat is a LDTR in Geneva so I got low rent for 5 years. I got lucky to get it during Covid time and lockdown as we got no connection in agencies this country. Everyone was leaving Geneva in 2020.

The agency refurbished it completely will insolation so they got discounted tax rate on this rent for few years as well. Win.win as I do not spend much on electricity bill (A+ equipment was installed).
The rental association ASLOCA help to negociate and keep it low.

I am accounting only our revenue stream so the bump was unexpected donation after our wedding. Same with tax reclaim. How do you do it ?

Late 30ies, cohabiting, no children, living in Zurich, renting (rent split 50-50).

2022 expenses: 38497 CHF. -0.37% compared to last year. Doesn’t include taxes.

Just did the numbers. Double income couple in Zurich city with kid. Total spending CHF 161k, breakdown roughly:

  • Rent & utilities 47k
  • Daycare 32k
  • Travel & trips 26k
  • Furniture 8k
  • Groceries 14k
  • Healthcare 12k
  • Transport 6k
  • Restaurants & bars 6k
  • Purchases for daily life (clothes, electronics, baby stuff, etc) 6k
  • Sports subscriptions 2k
  • Gifts and various other spending 2k

After-tax savings rate 30%.

Baseline spending after daycare and furniture ~120k, which includes an expensive but spacious and comfortable city apartment, and 35k of entirely discretional spending (for our own sanity). Therefore don’t put any effort in optimizing costs like groceries, seems hardly significant.

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How big is your family ?
Number of children could give me a expected budget increase :sweat_smile:

Probably too many details but here I come:
Double income couple with a toddler living in Zurich’s silver coast. No car.
Total spending 168k :frowning:
Savings rate 30% after taxes
A lot of one-time purchases in clothes, furniture (just moved to new flat) and electronics.
Groceries increased quite a lot. Probably due to inflation + new grill + relatives visiting for a few weeks.
Counting the days until kindergarten starts :slight_smile:

Main category Sub category 2021 2022
Food Groceries (cleaning and toiletries) 9,057 14,126
Food Restaurants, coffee and snacks 5,988 7,038
Housing Rent 4.5 rooms 36,305 41,457
Housing Electricity 418 541
Housing Furniture, decoration, non groceries 7,252 6,319
Housing House appliances 0 1,506
Housing Cleaning company 1,407 1,379
Housing Moving expenses 3,603 0
Insurance House insurance 301 0
Insurance Personal liability insurance 150 0
Insurance Legal insurance 297 297
Insurance Travel insurance 72 72
Insurance Rescue insurance 80 80
Insurance Other objects insurance 110 105
Taxes Serafe / Billag 280 335
Taxes Tax consultant fees 249 0
Taxes Taxes provision 21,604 21,500
Taxes Customs 63 258
Taxes Witholding Tax 900 1,004
Transportation Public transport 1,863 2,675
Transportation Taxis, Uber 0 21
Medical Health insurance 11,322 10,589
Medical Pharmacy 2,118 1,817
Medical Dentist 1,070 730
Medical Medical bills + physio, massages, glasses, etc 2,323 2,263
Travel Transport, accommodation, food 12,960 7,012
Telecommunications Mobile phone subscriptions 610 410
Telecommunications Internet subscription 1,022 600
Telecommunications Subscriptions (Netflix, news, etc) 1,248 988
Telecommunications Software 86 179
Telecommunications Electronics 0 1,669
Personal expenses Clothes and shoes adults 3,953 8,003
Personal expenses Hairdresser 1,147 1,460
Personal expenses Cosmetics / Beauty care 1,330 731
Personal expenses Sports 445 664
Personal expenses Gifts 1,017 1,695
Personal expenses Leisure 92 1,233
Personal expenses Books 190 425
Personal expenses Education 0 187
Personal expenses Family support 320 172
Personal expenses Lottery 95 125
Personal expenses Bureaucracy 36 195
Personal expenses Charity 240 20
Work expenses Work Expenses 0 206
Children Daycare 4 days a week 27,360 25,320
Children Clothes and shoes 3,000 1,280
Children Extracurricural activities 10 312
Children Toys 435 242
Children Equipment 205 261
Others Others 105 0
Banking, investments and savings Financial subscriptions 184 231
Banking, investments and savings Banking fees 201 145
Banking, investments and savings Broker fees 120 120
Banking, investments and savings Banking fees currency 109 107
Total 163,351 168,103
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One :sweat_smile:

Apart from daycare, ‘normal’ costs (groceries etc.) went up only by 3-4k per year. However, we’re spending considerably more on comfort: bigger flat (5k/y), cleaning lady (2k/y) and eating out (3k/y).

Should a second kid come around, we’d need a car. Including parking I guess that’s at least an extra 10k/y. Add another kid in daycare and we’re probably looking at (tenporarily) 200k spending per year… :crazy_face:

2 Likes

Aka lifestyle inflation. :grimacing:

Hello everyone,

Our household, my wife and I without kids. Working in Vaud canton and living in Fribourg :

Variables CHF 61 249,68
Food CHF 12 022,77
Non-Food CHF 2 638,20
Mobilité CHF 6842,14
Medical CHF 564,18
Dons/Cadeaux CHF 3 683,51
Sport CHF 4 209,54
Abonnements CHF 1 020,00
Téléphone/Internet CHF 1 320,59
Maison CHF 3 182,82
Services CHF 30,26
Vacances CHF 9 058,02
Activités entre amis CHF 3 440,82
Vêtements CHF 1 425,46
Autres/Divers CHF 3 008,86
Restaurant CHF 4 602,16
Véhicules CHF 4 200,35
Fixes CHF 53 309
Loyer CHF 19 680
Lamal + complémentaires CHF 6 720
Assurances véhicules CHF 2 312
Impôts + taxes CHF 24 597
Total CHF 114 558,68

Thanks a lot @Mr.RTF for the GGsheet :star_struck:

1 Like

As in any area with a very high cost of living, having kids indeed is a lifestyle choice :sweat_smile:

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