Moving existing 3a Pillars


#1

Hey dear mustachians,

I read a lot of the 3rd pillar stuff here in the forum. I stopped investing in 3rd pillar, but I have existing accounts and I can only move them right now and can not cash them out.

Because they are with ZKB i consider to move them to a “Swisscanto (CH) Vorsorge Fonds 75 Passiv VT CHF” account. Any one has any experience with this account? Would you recommend it?

I know there is a new player named VIAC and I like their setup/style as well and they seem cheaper. Who uses it and is it easy and secure and cheaper? I guess I just want VT-ETF in the first place and don’t bother after that.

Want to make a decision soon, but waited too long on this anyway - so any recommendations are welcome.


#2

I am with VIAC and happy. It’s the cheapest 3a with stocks and easiest to open (all can be done in the app). VIAC is only the front end, the money/stocks are not in their accounting but in with the WIR bank, which is a cooperative bank.
Normally, a web front end will be launch this year to make document management easier.


#3

Thanks, already read about your experience - glad it is still a good one. I really appreciate the cooperative thing, have all my insurances and other stuff changed to cooperatives (cheaper and better in most cases) - definitely consider to change to VIAC.


#4

@wapiti can you buy VT ETF? Or what portfolio do you have in there?


#5

you can only buy these titles:


(scroll down)


#6

Ok thanks. For the global 100 I pay a TER of 0.53%, which is more than Swisscanto. Is it cheaper if I mix and match them myself? Or how much cost your portfolios?


#7

Swisscanto has hefty Ausgabespesen, Rücknahmespesen, Transaktionsgebühren.
The money needs to be there for a long time in order to compensate.

BTW you are comparing VIAC 100% stocks to Swisscanto 75% stocks. But VIAC is not really cheaper if you go down to 80%. Or does Swisscanto offer a 100% stock option now?


#8

consider that for the swisscanto solution, you additionally need a custody account with some bank. MP himself looked for the cheapest option and came up with LUKB. it adds another 0.25% per year.


#9

Thanks. Yeah comparing apple and pears I know. No, no 100% stock option for Swisscanto. All this Bank-spesen all the time - gotta find out what they are for VIAC.

Thanks, good overview. ZKB is second :wink: - so I would stick with them anyway.


#10

LUKB does not sell the 75% stock Swisscanto ETF. I also asked AKB about it, and they do neither. AFAIK only ZKB sells this one.

This is actually one reason more why I prefer the no-frills-and-clear-costs-offer from VIAC.


#11

I did move my first 3a account to VIAC. In spring they should offer the possibility of having more than one account. AFAIK the max number of 3a accounts at one bank is 2, so I my case I did move the one with the most cash on it and the one with the second-but-most will follow.


#12

Actually you can have more than 2 . It doesn’t make sense to have more than 5 though, since the entire goal to reduce taxes paid is to have 5 smaller account and take one account every year from 60 to 65.
As far as i know viac will let us have 5 different accounts, very uncomplicated. I have only positive to say at the moment


#13

Yes, I will do the same!


#14

Today from the VIAC support: From end of April on it is possible to have more than one portfolio with VIAC.


#15

Also got some answers from VIAC directly and I try to summarise it here:

  • Although ZKB Swisscanto 75 is one of the better ones out there the whole Gebührenjungle is real, like Chickenfat mentioned: 0.15% Ausgabespesen, 0.08% Rücknahmespesen, Transaktionsgebühren 0.65% and Depotgebühr 0.30%, plus TER 0.38%. In most cases this is 1% or more per year. VIAC beats that clearly.
  • Obligationen (guess these are bonds?), in most 3a products you have them to a certain degree, 12.5% for Swisscanto 75. Currently you can have negative yields with them and it is not a smart move to have them at all. VIAC has 0% of them. (if the yield is bigger 0.3%, which is what VIAC pays for your Cash, then they would add it)
  • More Stocks possible, up to 97% with VIAC
  • No CHF hedging (which is more expensive long term) with VIAC.
  • You can change your strategy and customise if you want (coming with version 2 in April)

Question solved, VIAC is the best solution: Cheaper, smarter, more transparent and a cooperative!


#16

I am also trying to decide what to do with our 3a Accounts. Currently we have everything with Postfinance. Based on what I have been reading, VIAC is probably the best place to move them to. Any dissenting opinions?

Another question I have, is regarding the 3a payments. If we get going with buy and hold investments in ETFs through a broker, does it make any sense at all to continue with 3a payments (presumably with VIAC) in order to save on taxes? Let’s assume we have enough income to make a solid investment in ETFs per year and enough on top of that to still pay into the 3a for max tax deductions.

I could maybe see two scenarios where it might not be a terrible thing: 1. we get to a point where we could afford to retire before the set retirement age and leave Switzerland and close the 3a accounts, or 2. we find ourselves happy with our careers and want to carry on working (maybe part time as our passive income more than makes up for the shortfall :wink: ) and use the 3a as a deposit for a property.

So far I don’t really understand how to weigh up the costs on these products over the long term so would be happy for any guidance / suggestions.


#17

@nugget made a huge thread about this: The Pillar 3a Tutorial

There are different opinions and I can’t give you more insights. I am stopping 3a payments and go the ETF route for now.


#18

Another satisfied VIAC user here. I’m still amazed at how easy it was to setup via their app, even though my German language skills are limited. Also, I’m not sure what factors determine how quickly an orange payslip is processed, but transfers to my VIAC account are near instant. I’m really impressed.


#19

The once thing I don’t really like about VIAC is that they only buy the funds once a month on the 1st, instead of when they receive the money. My transfer is programmed for the 1st, so the money ends up sitting as cash for a whole month. I know, I could change the transfer, but still… Is it so hard to just buy the funds when there’s cash available?


#20

i would suppose that is just one way to centrally do all transactions & rebalancing, thereby minimizing cost. just an idea