Marriage types and divorce splits

Coffee
82

So true! Made me laugh so much that I had to write this comment, just a reaction was not enough :joy:

83

To the ones having a pre-nup in place: what exactly does it cover? I‘m torn between having one or not. At the moment, I don’t really see the point of having one since the default solution (in case of a dicorce, everybody gets to keep what they brought into the marriage, and gains are split 50:50) seems to be pretty sensible to me. Or is there something I didn’t notice?

84

If you haven’t a pre-nup by default all you will save or spend will be share equally during all years of mariage.
If one person earn more or save more, it will be shared equally if there is a separation . You cannot do things on your own term. If you want to do an investment with a friend it will be for the family.
My point is, you cannot predict what will happen in 40 years, maybe she will work part time or you will work harder, maybe love won’t be present anymore after 20, 30 years or maybe one of them will have an affair.
In the end everything will be split.

I love my wife, she is great and loving, do not care at all about money, do not care about investing for retirement and we will have one kid soon.
However I do not know what will happen and for me it is safe to take the option to be able to make my own saving and my own investment decision.
If our marriage end, we will split 2nd pillar, split our flat and raise our kid 50/50 but at least I can keep my savings

85

Splitting wealth 50/50 is one thing, and obviously this gets more important, the later the divorce happens.

But the other side is alimony for the ex-partner. If during marriage, one side doesn’t work on their career, but wants to enjoy the nice lifestyle, they will want to continue the same way. So you will have to fight in court and give your reasons why you think that your ex doesn’t deserve to continue the same way of living as before.
That’s why I’m so keen on my wife being independent of me, so each party could continue life alone if needed.
Again, when there is no reason for all this, all the better. :slight_smile:

I don’t think the chances are very high for that to happen in those cases.

86

If one earns multiple times the other (maybe because (s)he invested many years into studying or doing hard things), then it’s not that sensible to split 50/50, if you ask me.

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87

@Yanikuza few post above mentioned that this is also not guaranteed according to latest jurisprudence.
Anyway, this discussion gives bit more clarify of pre-nups popularity in Switzerland and I would attribute this the popularity of non standard family work/income arrangements.

@Giff, comment also got me thinking. Since I make 30% more than my wife, should I dare to ask pro rata in case of divorce? Probably not, since she contributes to the max of her capabilities. Would she stop contributing max and/or start spending more than consensual, then probably I would also think about pre-nup.

Remembered that when we were just couple I was more frugal despite earning more than here, but we paid everything 50/50 and all Swiss friends were frowning upon me not paying pro-rata. I would now call this friendship pre-wedding-pre-nup :slight_smile:

88

This topic made me a bit nervous.

I got married abroad, deciding for the separation of wealth (Gutertrennung IIUC), and then the marriage was recognised in CH, where we live.

I wanted to check with the Zivilstand what exactly they would consider our situation to be in case of a divorce. This is what they wrote to me:

Im Zivilstandsregister der Schweiz ist der gewĂ€hlte GĂŒterstand nie ersichtlich (eine ErgĂ€nzung bzw. Erfassung ist nicht möglich).
Wollen Sie bitte bei einem Notar nachfragen, ob der gewĂ€hlte GĂŒterstand ebenfalls in der Schweiz anerkannt wird.

So I need to check with a notary whether what we chose back then would be recognised here. Any comments or tips for a Notary in Zurich with mustachian prices? :slight_smile:

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89

Typical Swiss. No responsibility by government. On your own.

90

I think in canton Zurich, the notary is actually a state service you get at the city hall.

91

Your case is very relevant to me because we think about to marry abroad (me Swiss, she foreigner) and we want to make a marriage contract with ‘GĂŒtertrennung’.

As far as I understand when you marry the the Zivilstand does in anycase have no idea about this marriage contract since it’s privately between you and the spouse. This contract gets only interested for the Zivilstand (and the court) in the case of divorce/death etc. when you can not settle things friendly between the parties.

I don’t know what the law is in the country where you married, but in anycase I would make a marriage contract with ‘GĂŒtertrennung’. As far as I see it this normally should be accepted in Switzerland (see: LAWINFO - Ehevertrag - Exkurs: Anerkennung auslĂ€ndischer EhevertrĂ€ge - LAW.CHÂź, LAWINFO - Ehevertrag - Exkurs: Internationales EhegĂŒterrecht - LAW.CHÂź).

92

Another question:
Does anybody have an idea how much a marriage contracts cost to be certified by a notary in Switzerland. We plan to make just a very simple standard marriage contract with ‘GĂŒtertrennung’, no special additions etc. So, we do not need any extras, also no list of our possesion. In that case, I guess it’s OK to just use a simple template, like it can be found here Ehevertrag aufsetzen | Mustervorlage (direct link: https://www.myright.ch/de/documents/9).

So, the way I understand it: we literally would just fill out this template and then go together to a notary who has to certify this. I guess this should be possible with just a standard fee? Any experience?

93

Yeah, we are about to do it the same way and it’s only 200 CHF for the certification if you have done most of the work (preparation of the contract).

94

If I were you, I’d just do a new one here in Switzerland.

95

Thanks for that! I’ve actually made some more research and found out that these tariffs are fixed by cantons. As it happens, my home canton (Bern) seems to be the most expensive one: minimum fee: 500 CHF, literally just for reading it through one time and a signature, nice! :slight_smile:

96

@Giff you can create/setup a back-dated pre-nup which as long as both parties sign it is perfectly legal. Since you’d go to a Notary anyway you might aswell just get it done with a Swiss pre-nup contract.

97

Well, hopefully they would just recognised the contract we did sign back then. But yes, if back-dating a new contract is allowed, this would be an option.

98

We signed our contract today.
Everything went really smoothly at the notary.

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99

I spoke to the local notary today and I was told that, in case of a divorce, the law of the country where we married would be applied. Apparently it’s all written in the law somewhere, I asked the lady to reply to my email in writing, but she refused


100

Not sure if this is the right thread but I found an interesting article regarding the financial situation between marriage and Konkubinat: Ehe oder Konkubinat: Das sind die finanziellen Unterschiede | HZ Insurance

Quick summary:

Marriage:
Positive: Survivors benefit when one person dies from all three pillars
Positive: Inheritance claim by law after death of one person
Positive: No inheritance and gift tax

Negative: Higher taxes because of tax progression after a certain income
Negative: Less AHV (upto 44’100.- per year, maximum is 150% of the highest possible single payout)

Konkubinat:
Positive: Lower taxes because of separate tax filing
Positive: More AHV (29’400.- each so 58’800.- a year)

Negative: No survivors benefit at all from 1st and 2nd pillar
Negative: 3rd pillar is split between all inheritants if not mentioned otherwise in will
Negative: No inheritance claim by law
Negative: inheritance and gift tax

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101
  1. that used to be the case, but is changing (slowly, since we are in Switzerland), but today most PK’s pay out to Konkubinat partners, if some conditions are met (>5 years relationship and/or common child and/or you designate this person at your PK) as if you were married.
  2. true, but solution = write a simple will, A4 sheet, pen and an evening of your time. Get your partner to do the same.
  3. yes, but same solution see Point 2.

Inheritance Tax sucks and should be reduced to what married couples pay (usually nothing). But doesn’t seem like this is a topic to gain many votes, so no politician is interested.

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