Deleted threads

[Bojack]

@nabalzbhf

(wouldn’t want to make you feel too feminin )

This is a nice example of how to insult without using swear words. This smug patronizing humor is very typical of you and other members of this forum. I guess I’d prefer for you to tell me to fuck off, than to disrespect me in this condescending way, thinly veiled in humor and tact.

I guess this quote is attributed to Winston Churchill:

Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.

I wonder if you even realize what I describe here. These phlegmatic, low energy posts may pass moderation, but to me they’re even more infuriating, because they only pretend to be friendly.

[nabalzbhf]

Come on, it was an obvious reference to your earlier post about the feminization of the world…

[gaijin]

I created a new thread for Capital Gains Tax:

Capital Gains Tax

Fortsetzung der Diskussion von Deleted threads: How would these decisions about liquidity be made at tax time?

[Brndete]

So the Cuban crisis is over? @Bojack can create a separate thread to discuss global policies on menstrual leave if it’s a concern. I don’t see any connection to the commentary on a deleted thread on Dutch taxation.
For general misogyny, including the “it’s just a joke” type, I’m sure there are other places on the internet “to be yourself”.

On a more serious note, this threat nicely summarizes the need for a general “be civil” rule, since this crap draws circles way beyond the initial topic. Well, at least it’s contained in here, but why don’t you just get over it?

[Bojack]

@nabalzbhf

Come on, it was an obvious reference to your earlier post about the feminization of the world…

I know it was. I didn’t provide full context to what I meant by that (no, I don’t mean “women bad”, but I really don’t want to try to explain myself now, I shouldn’t have written it).

@Brndete

separate thread to discuss global policies on menstrual leave

How about compensating men for the fact that they are on average bigger and have to eat more, or that they live a few years less and die earlier? You want to bridge every gap between the sexes so that everything is fair, right? Look at this bigot, he has a problem that women are menstruating!

@Brndete

For general misogyny

And now you’re accusing me of misogyny, thanks a lot. Are you sure you’re not just projecting? Some misandry slipping through? Is this your way of being civil?

[Mirager]

Love it, makes me feel young again to see the quality of this forum approach that of what the internet used to be! (Edit: or, has become, now come to think about it, there was kind of a golden age when I first got on, around the late 90s where only fairly nerdy, smart, and totally weird people were on. That was fun and remained fun for about ~10 years, then it started going down when social media showed up, now it’s a total shitshow, in most places anyway)

There ya go, 18 years ago: Internet Commenter Business Meeting

[Bojack]

Happy to see at least someone enjoys this . But I regret getting engaged in this thread. People jumping to conclusions (including me) and I don’t think anybody gained anything, only got annoyed. Sorry for ruining your day (and mine) and I won’t be responding to this thread, or I won’t do anything productive today, lol.

[JEPG]

So much anger. Put a smile on your face.

[GJ_01]

I actually gained insight on some of the user’s views. I stand behind of a lot of what you said.

[jks21]

@Dr.PI

@cubanpete_the_swiss

Yes, they want slaves, not people. At least it looks like. Fortunately the Dutch have now two years to get out of that tax shithole… run as fast as you can!

This is not an argument. This is not an invitation to discussion. This is a pile of .

Really, a guy got so upset that decided to leave the forum because the mod deleted this (+) crap post?
Come on…

@mods I know it is extra effort but could you just warn/inform people before deleting their posts? even if it is obvious that they crossed multiple red lines? Seems that people become too emotional when this happen.

[Wolverine]

@Bojack

I wonder if you had to deal with situations where you felt like your values are being attacked by legislation and then someone defends them in a polite way. It’s hard to stay calm. Because you know if you do nothing, they will come with worse ideas in the future. And if say something, it probably won’t change anyth

I think our reactions to that situation are personal. I tend to loose most votations. My core value that our success comes from working together as a society at the cost of some personal sacrifices rather than each one of us voting for their own short term benefit isn’t very popular.

I’ve come to think that humanity will try every wrong option while it can, but will react with extreme strength, urgency and creativity at the dawn of precipice in order to avoid it, with success up to now. That allows for me to still remain optimistic while I stand unable to convince other people of my views.

[Julianek]

I haven’t been active for quite a while, but it looks like this forum does not learn from its past mistakes.

By this i don’t mean any criticism to @Dr.PI, to the contrary. Rather, that participants think they can bypass the forum rules and wonder why they get moderated.

When we wrote the New moderation policy four years ago, it was exactly because of the same kind of issue. Someone would have a hot opinion about a societal topic (most often tax and/or how much redistribution should we have in society), would get inflamed reactions and the thread would go nowhere, with nobody having changed its opinion.

A long time ago i used to think that anybody should be able to discuss anything and everything, but the forum has proven many times over the past ten years that it is not able to behave.

This thread in particular has already has proven most of my points. We already have two participants having diametrically opposite opinions about such a law (or taxation in general) and i don’t expect any of them to switch their opinion any time soon, so the thread will go nowhere anyway.

And as if it was not enough, the topic then took a detour towards firing some free bullets at gender topics. What good do you frankly expect to come out of that?

There is a reason why i was tired of moderating the mess these topics systematically created in 2022, and i can bet it is the same reason why @Dr.PI felt the need to do some cleanup earlier this month. Each time we have this kind of topic we have to figure out if each message has not gone too far (which is by itself very subjective, and always subject to acute criticism). It always escalates and we, again and again, come to the conclusion that nothing constructive comes out of these threads.

As said earlier, i have not been very active lately, so I’ll let @Dr.PI take the final decision.

But if it was up to me, i’d lock all of that. The chart we created at the time was very clear about:

• No gender stuff nor politics
• Be civil

About the last point, don’t expect any favor treatment by using a self-aggrandizing tone.
If you don’t like it feel free to leave, nobody is irreplaceable. 10 years on this forum proved it many times.

[Your_Full_Name]

I love the @mods, especially @Dr.PI , thanks for starting the forum, @Julianek.

That said, so long, and thanks for all the fish.

[JEPG]

If I may,

This discussion was not always “politically correct” and I understand there is a policy that hasn’t been respected either.

I also agree no one would change their mind.

However I did value free speech and people arguing for the sake of arguing. Because people are adults, having a (coffee?) place where we can discuss things without filter and even get into arguments, is that so unhealthy? I’m also old-school here. It’s internet. It’s anonymous here, not IRL-related, you’re free to disconnect whenever you want, or escape the discussion. And you need to be at least two to argue. Conversation could stop without mods, if someone gets bored.

Maybe there were some complains, but I could also read some users, supposedly targets of supposed “agression”, being “ok” with it.

Otherwise, let’s make the forum two topics:

• how to create an IBKR account and buy VT
• What’s the latest best banking package to save some cents every month.

I think FIRE needs so much more, ideas, beliefs, way of thinking and living are valuable to share. That’s a pity people flee.

[Dr.PI]

@JEPG

Because people are adults,

One person - maybe, but thousands?

@JEPG

place where we can discuss things without filter and even get into arguments, is that so unhealthy?

We saw it times and times again - nothing good comes out of it.

[JEPG]

Well, I counted @Your_Full_Name and @cubanpete_the_swiss as “good” contributors.

[Julianek]

While i see where you are coming from, we did try this in the past for a few months with the [COFFEE] threads, thinking that people should be able to discuss anything, not necessarily related to personal finance and so on.

Sadly, the result was a failure. You can dig deeper into the reasons here, but i will quote myself on these threads:

@Julianek

The point is that:

• those coffee threads are among the most active on the forum
• as such, they are always appearing on the top of all discussions
• the coffee threads are not simply “any” topics, they are topics that are controversial enough that they evolve into huge queues from an initial off-topic post.
• The topics and tones in these discussions are often off-putting. I try to use a simple litmus-test: “Based on these discussions alone, would I like to get a beer with these guys?” Most of the time the answer is flatly no. Next useful question is “If I was a newcomer and based on these discussions, would i like to spend a big chunk of my time participating on this forum?” => I don’t think the answer is very flattering.
• Some people will say: “if you don’t like the discussion, don’t participate to the thread”. But that’s forgetting that after some point, people won’t filter mentally “oh this is a useful thread, and this one is a sh*tty thread”. They just stop participating to the forum.
• As a result, valuable inputs become rarer and rarer, as @anon21880037 initial post rightly mentioned. This was my opinion until now, that i kept for myself. But it looks like many people have the same opinion.
• I have met several persons off-line who told me “Yeah I know this forum, but i have never participated because the atmosphere is not really nice there…” → So not only are valueable members not participating anymore, but new members are not willing to join either. We are self-selecting for the kind of people that like to participate in these coffee threads…

I don’t consider those coffee threads a success. I am reviewing the options but it is likely that I will close those threads and update the moderation policy. If people still absolutely want non-financial discussions, we can still create a discord channel as @Bojack suggested.

Now if you have a better suggestion I am all ears. Again, i used to think that people should be free-ish and talk about anything. But i haven’t seen any satisfying result so far.

[Dr.PI]

@JEPG

I think FIRE needs so much more, ideas, beliefs, way of thinking and living are valuable to share. That’s a pity people flee.

Let me ask you one thing, but please reflect well before answering. Why did you join this forum?

[JEPG]

@Julianek

While i see where you are coming from

Wherever that was, I was quite happy to take part to some online community again about topics that could catch my attention with unconventional people adding a touch of color to the conversation.

Now I understand this place has different goals and audience, fair enough.

[JEPG]

@Dr.PI

please reflect well before answering

What is this, a test? Patronizing again?
I’ll see myself out, thanks.

Edit: one more/last thing: if people need a reason to join this forum, make them pass (or fail) the test before they can start to post.