Agree with you, but I’m wondering where you get the “60% more deadly” number from.
All in all for me this is one of the important chats about the risk dying from C-19 from the BAG to show if there is a higher mortality through age ranges. When I see this chart, I don’t see the urge to vaccinate my kids (and ourselves) with a vaccine, which uses a new technology to vaccinate people.
Link:
1 Like
You can’t use the excess mortality to asses the IFR for a specific age group.
Here is a much better source for that, add 60% to the estimate for the relevant age group with the newer variants:
Deaths isn’t the only bad outcome for coivd. LongCovid is also a risk for young people. Are they really willing to take a ~20% chance of having halve a year of reduced life quality and a 2% change of a long term severe illness when there is a proven and save way to mitigate that risk?
It doesn’t really matter how you slice it. Every person that takes the vaccine reduces the chances of a negative health outcome, no matter the age.
3 Likes
What about longterm effects, that you might have for life? Mortality isn‘t the only fact to consider.
The gray band “statistically expected value” is for non-covid scenario? If so, it interesting how the number of deaths for 65+ went below the expected band.
I would see it like you, but as other guys mentioned, the risk of running into complications after having covid is scary and possible also for younger subjects. So I’d rather take the vaccine where the risk seems to be smaller.
By the way, do you guys have any timeline of when should we expect healthy people in their 30s, which are in no risk group, to get access to the vaccine? My gf works in healthcare, diagnosing 10+ patients per day, and she hasn’t heard anything yet.
1 Like
apparently there has been an increase of trombosis in the normal population becuase of lockdown & home office with people living a more sedentary lifestyle.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0268355520977294
so how can you eliminate all possible interactions between these multiple factors.
1 Like
I won’t be taking the vaccine for myself or my kids. I will be taking it to protect other people less fortunate than I am.
6 Likes
That is correct. Actually the effectivity of a vaccine or a treatment in general is measured in DALY
DALY – Wikipedia
Basically measuring statistically how your life quality decreases by having a certain illness/chronic issue.
It has been scientifically proven that the risk is much smaller, not seems much smaller.
Nah, somehow the vaccination plan has been really fucked up in Europe…Even the Indian are further with their vaccination progress. Mostly because the EU refuses to force Pharma companies to allow production under license. It would go much quicker if it would be the case.
And before someone comes with “patent rights” and “otherwise noone would invest into research anymore”, just take into account that most of the research has been done in state funded universites. For instance, Biontech Pfizer has at least 325 million funding from the German state.
Basically following the way : public research → start up partially funded by state → start up bought by big group. Most programming tools of voice recognition, KI and other (Siri, Alexa etc.) is also mainly state funded research. One of the reaseons it sickens me when companies say taxes are too high and blablabla…
1 Like
You do this by statistical studies. You take one group with vaccine, one group without vaccine. If there is a difference which is statistically relevant (basically the groups have to be big and diverse enough, and have comparable living conditions), you know that the vaccine has a relevant impact.
It is the same way how you can measure the impact of smoking in life expectancy.
However, these studies take time. A lot of data to aggregate, verify etc. Until now, most experts would probably say beeeh, statistically not relevant, continue the vaccination. However the public opinion has a different grasps of statistics (basically none…)
1 Like
I agree with you that patent rights often do more harm than good. The existence of patent trolls is not welcome. Luckily, in Europe the situation is not as dear as in USA.
This I really don’t get. Why does the state (i.e. our money) invest into research without getting anything in return? Normally, as an investor, you want some shares in return. Why are these grants given for free?
which companies are these? I don’t think the large corporations cry about it too much, as it benefits them. High taxes, complex laws, these are all great barriers to market. Just look which candidate Google, Microsoft, Amazon etc backed in the last election. Not the one who lowered the taxes.
There is no government forcing ‘production under license’ in this case. That happened with some cancer drugs few years ago.
India is administering 2 vaccines currently:
- Covaxin made by Bharat Biotech (a private Indian company). Many people questioned it (including myself) as it was approved in India before phase 3 trials were complete (like Sputnik V in Russia). Now prelim data of phase 3 is out. looks fine.
- Covishield (the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine), manufactured by Serum Institute of India (SII) (also a private company). AstraZeneca signed a deal with SII in April/May 2020 that SII will start producing their vaccine candidate already much before any results or approval. SII is actually world’s largest vaccine manufacturer making different kinds of vaccines every year (used in India and other low/middle income countries). EU is currently auditing the manufacturing facilities of SII in India (the approval would mean SII manufactured vaccine could be imported to EU if and when needed)
-
SII & Novavax also signed agreement in 2020 & 2021 for production of Novavax vaccine candidate (mainly for the WHO’s COVAX initiative)
-
Multiple India pharma companies signed contracts to produce Sputnik V
Then there is a whole list of candidates in clinical trials. More of them in his article: Covaxin: India approves two Covid vaccines for children under 12 - BBC News
My parents in India have received their first doses of covishield, and my sister and her husband (both medical professionals) got covaxin.
2 Likes
Good news. The vaccination willingness seems to improve this week as well.
The portion of the adult population that doesn’t want to vaccinate is down to 1 in 6 persons, an additional 15% is undecided and the rest is willing or already vaccinated. Source
6 Likes
Apple, Facebook, Google. Guess why they all have a “HQ” in Ireland, or a letter box in Delaware. However all there technology is based on state funded research, especially the KI part.
Even in Germany, since the 90’s, Körperschaftssteuer has been halvfd (40% down to approx. 20%), Vermögenssteuer has been canceled (actually not applied), highest tax percentage from 57% down to 42%. At the same time, social benefits have been cut everywhere.
I have no Idea. Especially Oxford wanted to do produce the AstraZeneca themselves, but were more or less forced to do it. I guess it is the ideology that states should not do business or whatever… Privatisation of profits, socialisation of losses.
I want to mention as well this regarding the jnj vaccine:
While the rate of unexpected side effects was similar between the vaccine and placebo groups, there was a slight imbalance of some reactions in the vaccine group to those who received a placebo. The vaccine group reported 15 cases of “embolic and thrombotic events,” or blood clots, among 14 recipients, compared with 10 in the placebo group. [source]
People who received placebo had roughly the same amount of “embolic and thrombotic events” than people that received the vaccine.
I find it crazy that governments made the decision of stopping the use of a vaccine because of few people that had an adverse event. Correlation and causation are two different things and it’s scary that governments risk hundreds of covid deaths because they are scared for a few instead of following the decisions of the agencies. That’s the actual job of the agencies.
2 Likes
Statistical science and politics are also two different things 
2 Likes
I guess they need to look like they take all preventive measures for the public opinion.
It probably looks better and less suspicious if they reinstate it a few days later after pausing it rather than not reacting to the noise at all.
1 Like
Here, I am with alsmot all of you.
If the vacine heplp me to open the doors of traveling give me 10 dosis 
Otherwise I will sit and wait.
@ItalianEngineer : The relatives that had vaccinated in my circle they had not get any reaction (so no fever no general deaziness)
1 Like
As expected. 
(Funny source though 
)
Hello,
I’m waiting for the Novavax vaccine to be available (granted that I get the chance to choose it). If not, I will just keep avoiding public places…
Seven members of my family so far have been vaccinated with Moderna or Pfizer (1 Astra Zeneca) with no excessive side effects (max slight fever) but two family friends (both female aged above 60) have had bad experiences (one was ‘blinded’ for two weeks then fine, the other will have to check her blood every two days for the rest of her life).
1 Like