Hello guys,
I’m here opening a topic that I’m sure will create a debate in the mustachian post forum audience: Covid vaccins.
I thought it was obviously something already discussed but in reality I could not find anything.
No clue about you, but in my life (family, friends, colleagues) it is basically one of the key topic from Christmas in any talk. I do not think it is only me, but I guess it is a common topic nowadays.
What do you think? Is it worthy to do or you feel it as just an obligation?
Any direct experience (on you or someone you know well enough to know how it was)? any problem?
I’m personally not 100% convinced of it. Too much pressure on science nor.ally doesn’t allow for a good and technically optimal solution (in my humble opinion). On top, the few people I know that got it (mainly few over 80, some people working in the hospital and some people working in the schools, most of them from Italy and Switzerland) told me they all got fever for 1-3 days and general deaziness. on the other hand., my brother had covid and the only symptom he had was one evening on deaziness without fever (you know, this kind of evening in which you do not feel well, you take a hot tea and lie down on the sofa for a while and you go named early after eventually taking an aspiring or a paracetamol…) and that’s all. Many othr people I know got it and told me basically all the same.
My humble question is then the following: better vaccinated (and 1-3 days of fever and other things) or getting the covid and feel eventually deazy for an evening?
With the vaccine you get fever (not sure what the actual differences are between pfizer, moderna, astra zeneca and the russian one). With covid you get a spectrum between nothing and death.
My current plan is to wait and see, until the vaccine is publicly available ad-hoc. And then decide. And if they ease travel restrictions for vaccinated people then it’s gonna be a strong argument to do it.
I trust science & swissmedic, and will get ASAP for me.
When I get a cold, I’m generally a candidate for man-flu, so I’d expect more than a headache/dizzy one evening from Covid (not that I am overly scared, just a normal respect for it).
Long-covid doesn’t sound great either, but don’t really know anyone personally.
Be aware thatyou are cherry picking your data point to support your initial point of view, which if you did for financial décisions on this forum, would gather some pretty Quick answers !
Light fever after the injection is pretty common in vaccines. Light fever is also pretty common in Covid-19 BUT the decision to vaccine is based on calculs to assess weather it’s worth or not the risk to expose People to à drug, and if so, what population of People.
Measles : benefices outweight the risks for children, so it’s mandatory.
Classic flu : strongly recommended for elder People and healer (doctor and nurses), almost mandatory for immunodefficient patients (chemo, aides, greffes)
Covid : depending on the age and profession, very higly recommended due to basal r0
Don’t forget that medical décisions are based on science and that human cognitive bias (like cherry pick or confirmation biais) are taken into account when the decisions is made.
Most (all?) the covid vaccines are reactive, so yes that’s the expected process, some fever as a side effect for a short time is common. Otoh covid has a wide range of impact, it’s not uncommon for young people to have flu symptoms (ie much worse than a few days with some fever), and obviously a lot of people have it much worse. In addition to that some people end up with long covid symptoms (headache, brain fog, etc) even if primary infection was minor.
The vaccine is also much better at building immunity, so you’d reduce the chances of getting reinfected with a variant (variant may escape the vaccine, but that’s harder than with natural immunity).
It’s also about protecting others, if you don’t do it for yourself, maybe do it for all the people you will likely infect who might not be as lucky.
Regarding other side effects there’s now something like 100M+ people who received at least a dose, afaik with no reported serious side effect (the US vaccinates like 3M per day)
Just realise that around 25% of the people that get covid still have some symptoms 6 months after the infection. 10% of those are severe. Meaning severe fatique, unable to walk more than a few hundret meters or others.
I’ll take a vaccine that prevents that anyday.
You need to be either crazy or ignorant about longcovid if you don’t want to take the vaccine.
My grandparents had slightly elevated temperature the first day after the second vaccine.
What I don’t get though, is why Israel still requires to wear masks? Are they just super cautious or wait until 100% are vaccinated? I was hoping we can get rid of these fracking masks…
I would not give much value to the feedback from relatives already vaccinated. The vaccines have been tested in a controlled manner on tens of thousands of subjects. In my opinion, there is no extra valuable information coming from the experience of a handful of people with no control.
Edit: The last vaccine I had (FSME) was tested on far less people (<3000) than any of the covid vaccines yet I did not hear anybody advising against it
Please be aware that this COVID vaccine is actually the most thouroughly tested vaccine before launch.
The main reason the launch was so fast is that :
-processes have been run in parallel
-More ressources have been put from the government side to accelerate the data review and process
So the vaccine is safe. A slightly elevated temperature or other symptoms is not considered as a harmful side-effect.
For me, vaccination as soon as possible. It is a social duty towards society.
I’m pro vaccine and would have a willingness to pay up to 1000CHF to get it. (If money was the limiting factor. As is, other people should get it earlier than me and I’ll just wait until it’s my turn.)
About the safety, I think that even if we didn’t have any empirical data about these specific vaccines, we should assume that it’s most likely safe.
However, we do actually have strong evidence that the vaccine is safe. See what @Patirou and @Gesk posted. Or for another example example:
I’m not cool with people promoting overblown vaccine skepticism when it leads to a loss of human lives and imposes a huge economic cost on the world.
6 family members above 80 years already vaccinated (Pfizer): 1 had headaches, 1 a bit of fever and the other 4 nothing. Another 2 family members vaccinated (doctors - Pfizer) no reaction. I will get one as soon as they let me
I’d also guess that other characteristics (political stance, living in rural or urban environment, trust in government) are much better predictors of Vaccine hesistancy.
I personally already received my first Moderna shot. No symptom at all. My girlfriend also did get both of her doses and she didn’t have any side effects
The vaccine is the only thing we have control on, so for me it’s a no brainer that as many people as possible should get it. Or maybe people want to stay in this shitty situation where we cannot do anything and stores are closed every few months?
I can understand that some people were septic at the start but now that a lot doses were administered we can say this vaccine is safe.
TLDR;
getting vaccinated asap is a no-brainer. usually I am more modest with imposing my opinion as the only correct one. but with covid I feel very different. I will be the first in line once it is available to me.
I see it as my responsibility towards the health of myself and all others. As a “side effect”, the sooner people get vaccinated, the sooner the virus will stop dominating public life and as such allow us to return to pre-covid-normality.
The vaccin side effects got a gross over-coverage in media due the nature of modern information spreading, and all the conspiracy folks and anti-vaccin activists. A fever is actually the preferred reaction, as it is a bodily immune reaction that shows that the body reacts to the foreign particles and equips itself with countermeasures for the next encounter.
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