If 100% were vaccinated the risks would be slashed, there would be little opportunity for the virus to circulate (see numerical example above). I would assume we could skip masks but I am by no means an epidemiologist.
You are right you can try to wait for everyone else to do the dirty work, but if everyone thought like that we would never get anywhere. At least you are honest I guess !
Could you please elaborate on that? I don’t understand what you mean…
Most people don’t care about others, I am sorry but it’s a fact.
If we (as a whole society) have been thoughtful of others in the past year and a half, we would have kept the distances, put the mask (the nose too you idiot), we would have avoided meeting in (small) groups, kissing your parents and close friends, we would have respected the confinements and the quarantines. Damn, I even have acknowledgements with confirmed infections that flocked into the first plane they could get to go back home! Shameful this last one. I did the best I could but I admit I also skipped some of these.
Most of you folks seem to trust a lot in the medical community. You forget that they (and us) are between the wall and the sword to get a fix, that the WHO completely missed warning international community of the spread of the virus, of the so many changes in arguments by politics (that somehow are backed by medical experts). First, no masks, then masks, then we open POS, now we close… and it just keeps going.
Now the fix is the vaccin. To be continued…
It’s sad but probably this freedom was our doom. In China, there is an infection case everything gets locked down, period. At the same time, their stats are most certainly totally manipulated, so who knows.
PS - “Anti-vaccin” are probably not anti-vaccinS (like myself) just hesitating with this one. It might be a risk not getting it. It might be a risk getting it, true. Do you really trust stats or medical certainty at this point? Why is there a significant amount of Doctors and Nurses refusing to get the vaccin in Switzerland?
I’m sorry you feel so much distrust, for sure not all decisions and statements were correct and I would have liked things to have been differently too so I can understand it to an extent. It does not change the probable benefits to others of taking the vaccine today however
Regards Pharma, what would be your alternative set up in a low / zero state environment?
Just puzzled as you often quoted Pharma as a reason not to take the vaccination or preventative measures
How can we talk about freedom of choice when people are bombarded by fake news and some embraced them as a live style?
Freedom and personal believes are antinomic. It doesn’t work.
And on one other side you have the scientific consensus.
If you feel that you don’t want to get vaccinated just to oppose a government policy, but that you agree with the global scientific consensus that vaccination is for now the best tool to mitigate and maybe get rid of our status quo, it’s your choice.
Not a wise one it’s seems because we gonna be stuck with more policies the longer it’s get.
They are no reasonable arguments yet to oppose vaccination. One can preach as long as they want, wait for Jesus Christ to come back and cure us all or take action and get vaccinated.
Who is “pharma sponsored”?
Who specifically in the task force and by which company (or companies)?
I would like to understand where you got the “information” that ETH research was “largely funded” by private corporations. Or is it becoming true because it has been repeated over and over again?
(I’m afraid the main source of funding is the taxes they stole from you)
Just a friendly reminder from your resident Captain Obvious:
Have a nice day!
Well, that is exactly the feeling Scientists gets when speaking with antivax people.
And through grants from the european union
But back to the numbers :
Budget of ETH 810 MCHF
From which 30 MCHF are coming from the private industry, that would be 3.7%. P. 107 on the attached report :
ETH_gb20-DE-web_29-3.pdf (ethz.ch)
10 minutes of google.
Again, totally wrong fact Patron is advancing, no ETH professor is paid by big pharma.
ETH is actually getting nearly 10x more from the EU than all the private companies.
That’s not supported by facts.
What we know:
The risk of a COVID infection is not approximately zero.
It far outweighs the risks of any vaccination over the short to mid-term.
What we don’t know:
The unknown effects and risks that newly developed vaccines pose over the long term - but there is very little evidence of them having widespread adverse effects over the long term.
And it’s not as if we knew all of the unknown long-term effects an infection with the virus could have.
Facing the decision between two courses of action (getting vaccinated or not) that both have some (residual) unknown risks, the decision to “do nothing” is quite human - but it’s not very rational.
There are also inactivated virus vaccines against COVID (though admittedly not in Switzerland), whose functional principle has been used and understood for many decades.
But I have heard very few calls to introduce and approve conventional, “old-school” vaccines. The ballyhoo is created by anti-vax nutters and stubborn anti-government sentiment.
No matter how well-understood and established the vaccine and its technology, and no matter how widely it is regarded as safe, I believe most of these people would object anyway.
You can answer the question for yourself: Would you take any other, more conventional vaccine?
What we’ve also learned: we shouldn’t trust conspiracy theorists and lunatics on the internet.
I will lean myself out of the window and say the following without sourced material : pretty sure the scientific community has a much better understanding and bigger picture than you.
That is why they create commissions, transdisciplinal research teams and so on to talk with each other and cross reference their data etc.
Guess what, they already figured out that organisational problem, and that you need specialists of each domain to solve problems
Nope, IFR includes asymptomatic and undiagnosed. There is no further dividing.
Nope, the risk is IFR. Sooner or later, without vaccines or isolation, everyone gets the virus. Some are symptomatic as a result, some mild etc.
Yes it is, if they dont get the vax or isolate
Thats the whole point about IFR, it is an estimate. The number which is easier to calculate properly is CFR. Those people that did normal business either were asymptomatic or havent seen the virus yet.
You are so funny, really…
Not speculations, some experts are saying this.
Step 1: make a false or misleading statement
Step 2: deny any counter arguments
Step 3: when proven wrong again, change subject and jump to step 1
Endless “debate” guaranteed
So you are suddenly - but “conveniently” - ignoring the unknown long-term risks of a COVID infection?
I’m not to jump on the bandwagon by attributing everything to “long COVID”. But death certainly isn’t the only risk of a COVID infection. And it’s most probably not the only long-term risk.
Preventing COVID infections or lowering their severity isn’t only about life or death.
It will be, with the lifting of restrictions that you are calling for.
Not exactly 100% - but close enough to it, with the infectiousness these viruses have.