[COFFEE] A bar fight on Apple products

[dbu]

@Wolverine

for the “luxury” factor - people want to stand out

At this point (seeing how they are everywhere) it’s as “stand out” as Apple’s “think different” mantra

[Bojack]

Apple hasn’t been using this slogan since 2002, but you’re still hung op on it. People don’t buy Apple products to stand out, rather to blend in, if anything. IMO, people hating on Apple seem to have some unresolved issues. It’s not Apple product owners who feel “special” for using them, it’s the non-owners who perceive Apple users as such, and have some sort of inferiority complex and have to cope by ridiculing Apple every chance they get. Just my 5 cents…

[dbu]

Bojack, you seem very salty today.
I know it’s Monday, but take it easy, it’s just a joke.

[Bojack]

Forgive me, I know I haven’t been the kindest, lately.

[Bojack]

Actually I think we’re still far from having discussions like:

I buy Apple smartphones over Samsung, Xiaomi, Oppo, Vivo, Huawei, because (…)

… for EVs. Once the EV makers expand their supply and actually start competing against each other, you might get:

I buy Tesla over Hyundai, BYD, SAIC, Chery or Geely, because (…)

Not sure if Hyundai can survive, but I wanted to pick one of the old brands, just like Samsung managed to successfully transition into the smartphone World.

[Jagermeister]

@Patron

I buy Apple products because it’s the only system that just works and has extremely nice integration into an ecosystem that also just works. In my spare time I don’t want to deal with computer issues, configuration stuff, how to transfer stuff between devices and ecosystems, etc. I want simplicity and stuff that just works. Only Apple provides that throughout the whole tech stuff experience.

This. 100% agree. Not only that, Windows or Linux are not even remotely close to it.

Plus macOS is not iOS, it is a powerful, customizable OS if you want it to be.

[Grog]

@Patron

I buy Apple products because it’s the only system that just works and has extremely nice integration into an ecosystem that also just works. In my spare time I don’t want to deal with computer issues, configuration stuff, how to transfer stuff between devices and ecosystems, etc. I want simplicity and stuff that just works. Only Apple provides that throughout the whole tech stuff experience.

and then you have cases like my wife, that needs to throw away a perfectly fine iPad because is not part of the latest update of iOs, and there are apps that would only work with the latest release. Same with her Macbook. Hardware in perfect state, battery in good conditions, she asked me to install linux over it because cannot get the last iOs and she is basically cut off from updating any software/app

so yes, it works well. For 4-5 years. Then you have to buy a new one or install linux.

[Bojack]

@Grog

throw away a perfectly fine iPad

@Grog

Same with her Macbook

@Grog

it works well. For 4-5 years

I don’t know what kind of old crap hardware your wife has been using, but could be that you bought an outdated entry-level item to save a bit of money and now you’re bitter.

Let’s see which is the oldest device that supports the latest version of the OS.

macOS 12:

• 2016 MacBook
• 2015 MacBook Air
• 2015 MacBook Pro

iOS 15:

• 2015 iPhone 6S

iPadOS 15:

• 2017 iPad 5th gen (*)
• 2014 iPad Air 2
• 2015 iPad Mini 4
• 2015 iPad Pro 1

(*) iPad 4th gen was released back in 2012

So we can see that Apple products get at least 7 years of software updates, and possibly more.

[Grog]

Yes, you are right. I misremembered her problems with the iPad. She had one of the official app from apple that was pushing to update, or not work anymore (I think it was the backup - couldn’t start the backup unless she update) but updating would have broken the compatibility for a set of medical apps she uses for work, that would only be compatible with older OS releases. But apparently the developers were desperate because apple closed off certain things in the new OS so they were struggling to provide the updated version.

So she was kind of stuck. But yes, Apple overall is not the worse.

[Bojack]

@CHRad

their updates force you to buy new phones because they make your older one slow…

this is again such manipulation. if you have an old battery in your device, apple with throttle the device to protect the battery. Just replace the battery to get back to full speed. It is clearly in your best interest to have the device throttled, or else the battery will get killed much sooner.

[Bojack]

@CHRad

Linux and Windows are far superior in terms of performance

in what way does Windows perform better than macOS? Or a Windows laptop better than a MacBook?

@CHRad

I worked on all three systems for about 2-3 years and I’d consider myself a power user as a Dev

Yeah I would say that for programming and corporations (like if you need Citrix), Windows is the way to go for compatilibity and support reasons.

Macbooks are meant for freelancers and independent creators. Or for home users.

@CHRad

overpaying for outdated and bad hardware

This is retarded and uninformed. Have you used an Apple Silicon MacBook? Have you seen the benchmarks? A MacBook Pro delivers a processor that requires very little power and almost never needs to activate the fan, it has a fantastic display, great quality of sound, microphone etc etc. A comparable windows Laptop like Dell XPS Lenovo Thinkpad or HP ZBook will easily cost the same, that is $2’500.

Also, there is big advantage in building your own hardware & software. You can optimize the software for the hardware, needing less RAM, CPU etc etc. That’s why iPhones don’t need so much RAM. Will you blame Apple for allowing themselves to generate higher margins? Most users don’t need that extra RAM anyway.

[Neville]

@CHRad

overpaying for outdated and bad hardware

Does that include the new Apple M processors?

[Grog]

I don’t really even have a dog in this fight i use chrome OS and am incredibly happy. After three years still boot up in seconds, have guaranteed safety update until 2026 and is the safest of all 4 OS, because it is by design.
Additionally you get some nice little perks like android app which work really well, steam with Vulcan an native GPU support is coming for light gaming etc.
Add the insanely cheap entry price, they are now my go to recommendation for non-professional.
For work i still have windows, provided by my company, because it needs to be as similar to my customer as possible.

[Jagermeister]

7 years of OS updates. Then you can still stretch it way more, because it is not that the main Apps (e.g. Chrome) will stop providing updates for older OSs immediately.

On top of that it is not that apps are magically going to stop working. Again an example with Chrome, you can browse the internet with a 1yr old Chrome version and 95% of the sites will still work.

7 years of flawless functioning and all the reasons Patron mentioned vs. 10-12-15 years of nightmare.

My choice is clear.

PS. Love the new thread title haha

[Jagermeister]

There are a lot of IT people using Apple products and the ones who doesn’t I haven’t found a reasonable explanation for it. It is the counter-Apple-fan-boys. Just like the stupid Apple fans exist that buy it just for the “luxury” sense.

But if you know about computers, it is not a luxury. What is a luxury is having time to deal with all Microsoft stupidities and Linux inconveniences.

I have recommended Macbooks to many friends and relatives over the years. No one of them wants to ever touch a PC again.

[Jagermeister]

@Patron

For client systems Windows has the biggest market share but not because it’s better but because it offers more enterprise features where admins can control and lock down devices, which macOS doesn’t offer to the same extent.

This is changing very rapidly. There is JAMF. It works very good.

Microsoft also offer Active Directory which makes the life of corp admins easier.

Or makes their life a nightmare

[Grog]

In a mechanical/electrical engineering company very often the simulation software used are not that Mac friendly. Apple prepared his silicon with so much secrecy that provider of modeling and simulation software, CAE tools, FEM/CFD are still catching up.
And if your entire electromechanical R&D is locked on windows anyway, you really are not that motivated to maintain two systems for all the non-engineer employees.
For instance hardware support (example Keysight and their software stack that supports their lab measurements devices, only supports windows and Linux) is a bit abysmal on Macintosh for mechatronics engineers. A lot of software interfaces to robots etc only runs on windows.
Automotive stuff, CAN protocol analyzers, software like ETAS INCA or Vector Canoe are windows only.
There are a few exceptions that support apple (like MathWorks Simulink) but for mechatronics engineers is frankly barely usable if you do real products and not some small prototyping on the side.

So yes if you touch hardware, apple is a world of pain. And you always need an old style USB or Ethernet port to connect some USB interface/serial adapter etc. Not always nice to drag a USB adapter with you

[San_Francisco]

@CHRad

Yeah Apple is so good, their updates force you to buy new phones because they make your older one slow…

Could you point us to mobile phones that have longer support periods than Apple’s iPhones?

I mean, a couple percent slower speed is one thing, not receiving any security updates is another.

[Lumo]

If there was any discussion on PC level before, with the M family chips, Apple killed it.

Signed: an ex windows power user that flipped over to the other side. Sure, you are somewhat closed in the environment, but stuff works seamlessly because they are software+hardware makers, and on this, they are unique.

Plus you get to work on a piece of art - Macbook air M1, no fan, battery 10+h, slim, super light.

Another thing is the quantity of accessories you can easily get designed for Apple products. I remembered buying an iPod-copycat back in the day and forget about finding case options.

My biggest regret in tech was buying a “super” Dell XPS back in 2013 instead of a Macbook Pro to save a few hundred bucks.

The original, typically is always better. Same thing for an EV. If you go for an EV, why anything else than a Tesla - that is the de facto EV, anything else is just trying to get there…

That said, it’s just my opinion and it’s actually good to have more than one option and that a lot of people keep funding the competition. I wouldn’t want Apple to be in a more monopolistic situation than it is now.

[Bojack]

@Lumo

Signed: an ex windows power user that flipped over to the other side

My case exactly. Two things i like about macbook: 1. it has the best looks 2. the ui and apps also look better than windows, especially the high dpi. That being said, I should have gone with a windows laptop, because at the banks where I work, windows is supported better in the BYOD model (since covid).