[COFFEE] A bar fight on Apple products

At this point (seeing how they are everywhere) it’s as “stand out” as Apple’s “think different” mantra :sweat_smile:

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Apple hasn’t been using this slogan since 2002, but you’re still hung op on it. People don’t buy Apple products to stand out, rather to blend in, if anything. IMO, people hating on Apple seem to have some unresolved issues. It’s not Apple product owners who feel “special” for using them, it’s the non-owners who perceive Apple users as such, and have some sort of inferiority complex and have to cope by ridiculing Apple every chance they get. Just my 5 cents…

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Bojack, you seem very salty today.
I know it’s Monday, but take it easy, it’s just a joke. :slight_smile:

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Forgive me, I know I haven’t been the kindest, lately.

I buy Apple products because it’s the only system that just works and has extremely nice integration into an ecosystem that also just works. In my spare time I don’t want to deal with computer issues, configuration stuff, how to transfer stuff between devices and ecosystems, etc. I want simplicity and stuff that just works. Only Apple provides that throughout the whole tech stuff experience.

In the same way I would not buy a Tesla to stand out or to impress other people, but because they do something better than others.

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Actually I think we’re still far from having discussions like:

I buy Apple smartphones over Samsung, Xiaomi, Oppo, Vivo, Huawei, because (…)

… for EVs. Once the EV makers expand their supply and actually start competing against each other, you might get:

I buy Tesla over Hyundai, BYD, SAIC, Chery or Geely, because (…)

Not sure if Hyundai can survive, but I wanted to pick one of the old brands, just like Samsung managed to successfully transition into the smartphone World.

This. 100% agree. Not only that, Windows or Linux are not even remotely close to it.

Plus macOS is not iOS, it is a powerful, customizable OS if you want it to be.

and then you have cases like my wife, that needs to throw away a perfectly fine iPad because is not part of the latest update of iOs, and there are apps that would only work with the latest release. Same with her Macbook. Hardware in perfect state, battery in good conditions, she asked me to install linux over it because cannot get the last iOs and she is basically cut off from updating any software/app

so yes, it works well. For 4-5 years. Then you have to buy a new one or install linux.

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4-5 years is not that bad, sometimes it’s even longer such as 6 or more years depending on device, plus additional 2-3 years of support for third party apps. I’ve used iPads and MacBooks for 7+ years or so without issues and got updates. iPhones need to be updated a bit more often than that but that’s fine.

Some apps only work with certain devices because they need certain sensors, chips or whatever in it and those are sometimes only available on newer devices. Often the choice is also with the provider of third party software as they can choose what minimal iOS version they want to support. It is understandable because for every release they need to run tests on different iOS versions and if we know that almost nobody uses a 5 year old device anymore, then it’s a bit pointless for a software company to support those devices and have additional testing effort for it. So it’s not even Apple’s fault.

Actually, with many other vendors you get less than those 4-5 years. Some offer only 4 years and I heard some even only 2 years. Some phones for example get delivered with already outdated android releases on it without possibility to upgrade unless you flash a standard ROM or whatever. So Apple is not that bad.

The Linux stuff is an okay idea for people who do not much more than just browsing a bit the internet and read news etc. but other than that it can be quite painful. Linux is the best for servers but for desktop devices it’s still quite weird somehow. I tried that too with an older MacBook hoping to speed it up but went back to an older macOS and eventually bought a new one. It works in general, but there is no integration into an ecosystem at all. Some providers (such as for cloud) offer apps but they are quite limited lack features and look ugly. Also, drivers are sometimes in a terrible state, for example the video quality in Skype calls with the same device was like day (macOS) and night (with Linux). Also, Wi-Fi drivers were quite crappy, lots of disconnects which never happened with macOS. It works, but it’s not a pleasant experience overall.

I don’t know what kind of old crap hardware your wife has been using, but could be that you bought an outdated entry-level item to save a bit of money and now you’re bitter.

Let’s see which is the oldest device that supports the latest version of the OS.

macOS 12:

  • 2016 MacBook
  • 2015 MacBook Air
  • 2015 MacBook Pro

iOS 15:

  • 2015 iPhone 6S

iPadOS 15:

  • 2017 iPad 5th gen (*)
  • 2014 iPad Air 2
  • 2015 iPad Mini 4
  • 2015 iPad Pro 1

(*) iPad 4th gen was released back in 2012

So we can see that Apple products get at least 7 years of software updates, and possibly more.

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Yes, you are right. I misremembered her problems with the iPad. She had one of the official app from apple that was pushing to update, or not work anymore (I think it was the backup - couldn’t start the backup unless she update) but updating would have broken the compatibility for a set of medical apps she uses for work, that would only be compatible with older OS releases. But apparently the developers were desperate because apple closed off certain things in the new OS so they were struggling to provide the updated version.

So she was kind of stuck. But yes, Apple overall is not the worse.

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Yeah Apple is so good, their updates force you to buy new phones because they make your older one slow…

I think in IT, this is not really a debate… Linux and Windows are far superior in terms of performance and cost… For the non-IT end user, apple has a higher comfortability for general use than Linux, but that’s it. Still way lacking behind Windows in every other aspect.

I worked on all three systems for about 2-3 years and I’d consider myself a power user as a Dev :slight_smile:
For me nothing goes over Windows - it’s simply the most adopted platform. This combined with apples terrible price politics (overpaying for outdated and bad hardware) is a no brainer for me and most other IT guys I’d say.

One thing apple people always say which is super funny is that apple computers don’t need that much RAM or GHz to deliver the same performance… Yeah sure lol, then why not opt for the better hardware and have an outperformance? Because math and science doesn’t work that way :smiley: :smiley:

Let the fight begin :crossed_swords: :fire:

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this is again such manipulation. if you have an old battery in your device, apple with throttle the device to protect the battery. Just replace the battery to get back to full speed. It is clearly in your best interest to have the device throttled, or else the battery will get killed much sooner.

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Yeah this is a perfect example of defensive behavior from apple fans lol…

Why not let me decide when and if I want my device throttled?

in what way does Windows perform better than macOS? Or a Windows laptop better than a MacBook?

Yeah I would say that for programming and corporations (like if you need Citrix), Windows is the way to go for compatilibity and support reasons.

Macbooks are meant for freelancers and independent creators. Or for home users.

This is retarded and uninformed. Have you used an Apple Silicon MacBook? Have you seen the benchmarks? A MacBook Pro delivers a processor that requires very little power and almost never needs to activate the fan, it has a fantastic display, great quality of sound, microphone etc etc. A comparable windows Laptop like Dell XPS Lenovo Thinkpad or HP ZBook will easily cost the same, that is $2’500.

Also, there is big advantage in building your own hardware & software. You can optimize the software for the hardware, needing less RAM, CPU etc etc. That’s why iPhones don’t need so much RAM. Will you blame Apple for allowing themselves to generate higher margins? Most users don’t need that extra RAM anyway.

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Does that include the new Apple M processors?

I don’t really even have a dog in this fight :rofl: i use chrome OS and am incredibly happy. After three years still boot up in seconds, have guaranteed safety update until 2026 and is the safest of all 4 OS, because it is by design.
Additionally you get some nice little perks like android app which work really well, steam with Vulcan an native GPU support is coming for light gaming etc.
Add the insanely cheap entry price, they are now my go to recommendation for non-professional.
For work i still have windows, provided by my company, because it needs to be as similar to my customer as possible.

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7 years of OS updates. Then you can still stretch it way more, because it is not that the main Apps (e.g. Chrome) will stop providing updates for older OSs immediately.

On top of that it is not that apps are magically going to stop working. Again an example with Chrome, you can browse the internet with a 1yr old Chrome version and 95% of the sites will still work.

7 years of flawless functioning and all the reasons Patron mentioned vs. 10-12-15 years of nightmare.

My choice is clear.

PS. Love the new thread title haha

There are a lot of IT people using Apple products and the ones who doesn’t I haven’t found a reasonable explanation for it. It is the counter-Apple-fan-boys. Just like the stupid Apple fans exist that buy it just for the “luxury” sense.

But if you know about computers, it is not a luxury. What is a luxury is having time to deal with all Microsoft stupidities and Linux inconveniences.

I have recommended Macbooks to many friends and relatives over the years. No one of them wants to ever touch a PC again.

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I think that’s like comparing Apples with Bananas.

Linux is made as a server operating system and that’s where it shines. It’s by far the best you can get for a server and that’s why also the market share for server OS is more than 80%+ Linux/Unix like systems. Nobody uses Windows for something that needs to be highly available or reliable. Some companies use it because their admins don’t know what they do so they need a point-and-click-and-then-it-works GUI. Some exceptions are when certain server software only runs on Windows but then I guess the developers didn’t really know what they were doing. So Linux is the best for servers by far but complete crap as a workstation (unless you just browse the internet a bit). Most software is not available on Linux, quality of alternatives is usually completely crap and often device drivers are very bad and lack of quality.

For client systems Windows has the biggest market share but not because it’s better but because it offers more enterprise features where admins can control and lock down devices, which macOS doesn’t offer to the same extent. Microsoft also offer Active Directory which makes the life of corp admins easier. Many companies already have Office licenses and that’s why they already have an enterprise agreement with Microsoft, which is also a reason because many companies want to restrict the amount of suppliers they have an opening a new relationship is usually very cumbersome and requires lots of screening and compliance work.

For companies who already use Office 365 they have easy data leakage prevention for their documents etc. with Windows and Azure Information Protection Plans. Many also use Exchange for Email. So it’s just the combination and accessibility for enterprise environment that makes companies use Windows on clients.

But I guess lots of people would prefer a Mac if they could choose but in most companies you can’t choose, but I guess all of my colleagues would use a MacBook rather than a Windows laptop for work :wink: It’s much more developer friendly compared to Windows and nowadays almost everyone in IT is a developer to at least some extent (everything as code, etc). With a Mac you also don’t have to deal with computer problems all the time as you have to when using Windows. I admit, Windows significantly improved over time but still lacks behind macOS in terms of usability and stability.

So everything has their niche I guess.

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