[COFFEE] A bar fight on Apple products

Actually, it is not the high dpi only. Aesthetically, I find it immensely more pleasant than Windows (And of course than the absolute ugliness of Linux).

If you look at a computer screen for many hours per day, it counts.

macOS is relaxing. Windows is anxiogenic.

:cowboy_hat_face:

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:man_facepalming: Good to know you have no idea about Linux as you think there is only a single Linux GUI. Please only talk about things you’re actually familiar with.

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There are many Linux distros and many desktop environments, like KDE, Gnome, XFCE etc. Some of them have very aesthetically pleasing UIs. But you would expect all apps to look consistent, which is not the case. The overall experience is not as polished as with macOS.

I would say that Windows 10 looks acceptable at 100% zoom. What I definitely HATE is the move to make settings UI touch-friendly, which increased the size of everything, reduced detail and made it look bland. But still, not all features are accessible this way, so you might still resort to some old-style GUIs. Overall, it’s a damn mess. Then come the apps. Depending on the framework these apps they were written in, they will look totally different from each other. And then if you add a 4K display to it, and try to scale Windows to 200%, some apps can scale nicely (VS Code, Chrome), some look quite ugly IMO (MS Office, especially Outlook has a totally different feel when scaled), and some don’t scale at all and you’re left with a blurry mess. For this reason, I dislike the user experience on Windows. As long as we didn’t have ultra-high resolution screens, it was OK. Now it’s a mess.

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Had to chip in, IMO the end of this sentence is completely off. I had been using Arch with gnome as my dev workstation for quite a while, and only switched back to macOS because I needed portability and reliable hardware. Arch with frequent updates is more predictable than macOS, and as a dev I have all the tools I need without any weird workaround (docker, anyone?).

The part I don’t get is developers working with Windows. I tried it, and honestly unless your IT dept has a strict Windows-only policy (or if you develop native Windows software obviously) I see no good reason to stick with it.

There were my 2 cents on that looooong running flame war, thanks for the refreshing posts :slight_smile:

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Windows appears to have gotten better with regards to the developer experience, depending on what you’re targeting. Thanks to Linux, as WSL is very useful. You still have to deal with the rest of Windows, though, which can be a pain. However, I don’t have much first hand experience anymore.

I’ve been using Linux on my main developer workstation for many years. With the right hardware choices, it’s the most reliable and flexible platform in my experience. And you don’t have to deal with quite as many constraints, (POSIX) bugs, bloat (and worse) as with proprietary platforms. The best choice may differ for other user groups, of course.

For being a bar fight, you have missed the most important thing on your personally-directed gratuitous attack. Breaking a beer bottle against the bar and point it at me as if you want to stab me with it, would have been much better.

One thing you did right though. In this kind of fights is common to misjudge who you have in front or what did that person really said : I have never said Linux has one single GUI. But they are all ugly to me. Which is to a certain extent (beutiness/uglyness) a subjective feeling. And I have been using Linux (not counting other UNIX OSs) in a variety of at least a dozen or fifteen different distros for about 20 years now, probably even more, both personally and professionally, so I am QUITE FAMILIAR with it.

Keep trying man. Maybe try to break a chair against my head next time?

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Shots fired :gun::gun::gun::gun::gun: (reaching min length with gun emojis)

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Oh man, trust me, breaking a chair against your head would be totally unnecessary and feel very uncharitable: you are already making your life miserable by using Apple products, threatening you with broken glass would feel like kicking a defenseless puppy, there really would be no sense in it.

[good enough? :smiley: ]

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I use Windows at work and personally appreciate it that my computers at home have a different look and feel. It just sort of makes it a little easier to separate work from private.

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LibreOffice? The only real problem I’m facing when dealing with outside documents are powerpoints, because the presentation gets all messed up. docx ↔ odt conversion is pretty seamless in my experience, and having something less cumbersome than the recent Office releases that actually gets the job done is a good plus in my book.

Then again, my tastes are geared toward light solutions that do one thing properly and do it without much circumvolutions. All-in solutions with automated information trading between softwares and heavy use of macros (also, expensive and, worst of all, on subscription) isn’t my thing, so what works for me wouldn’t work for someone else (and I can understand other people may like MacOS or recent Windows versions (and/or Microsoft365, urgh!) while I loathe them.

Well, the attack of a clumsy violent drunk barfly I can probably dodge it. But coming back home tired of working all day and having to be attacked by a computer spitting out ugly words like “corruption” “invalid” “violation” “dump” “crash” “fault” “panic” “kill” and other similar comforting words would be very cruel and unnecessary.

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I was not clear enough, my bad, I meant “docker on Windows/macOS” being a weird workaround. You have a somewhat hidden VM and extra stuff like flaky filesystem drivers and all, not a big fan. I thought I could at least remove part of the bloat using minikube but at least on macOS it remains not ideal.

I feel I missed the whole point of this thread, so yeah all of you Windows fanboys can go cuddle a goat, because macOS is superior and we are as well (yes I am a Mac user too ^^).

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This thread doesn’t have a sharp point, because it’s a spinoff. So there is no real initiating post. But yeah, it started with someone saying bad things about Apple products.

I always felt totally lost when using any apple product, even tried some (iPhone, iPod, the big Mac screen with the computer in it, don’t remember the name…), don’t understand the logic in it, feel them always slow and clingy, and are usually chocked when I can’t do some really basic stuff with it just because it is proprietary ("Honey, what do you mean by “No, I don’t have an USB on my iPad, neither Torrent software nor any basic external storage, only paid options”??)

I use Windows at work and mainly Office Product (the couple of times I tried them on macOS was a horrible experience), and I like it as it is a tool for work, nothing more. And I use only MX Linux at home for years now on my desktop PC, just perfect for my use, even for gaming (thanks GeForce Now). Linux impress me by the level of compatibility and stability they reached. And I love having an not conventional UX, a thing I can do with Linux compare to others.

I guess mac can be a good option for most people than need simplicity over freedom, but I really don’t like the design and found the UX atrocious… having to pay a fortune for it and being a cash cow just for basic functionality is the nail of the coffin for me. Thanks but no thanks. I guess I have different tastes than the masses :smiley:

P.S : phone is a OnePlus with a stock OxygenOS, which is close to the naked Android possible without going exotic…

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Ouch, that’s a pretty weak argument… a bit like “it’s not a bug, it’s a feature”…

It’s 4-5 years old, so yeah, most probably. But why on earth I’ll call over 4-5-6-7G?? We had totally perfect calls on 1-2G already…

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That’s the whole point. Yes, you can use AirDrop and stuff, within the ecosystem (for which you pay an absurd price, in addition on all your data and restriction), with really limited way to interact with the rest of the techno world. You see that as a “mindset”, I see that as a hell of limitation. Coming an IT background and looking to have some freedom as I can, I don’t see “the 90’s way to do it” that bad.

But I respect everyone views, as long as I’m not forced (yet) to follow your dogma.

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At the end, it is simple

Apple close ecosystem work really well.
Alternatives works well, but not in a close ecosystem (so multiple tools multiple systems ,…)

if you value a working product over choice and prize → go for Apple
Else → look for other alternatives

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Agree with you stance, but this is basically saying that other products don’t work… :slight_smile: which is wrong.

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Google core business is data. So obviously, yes, they gather a lot of them. And yes, they are evil.
Apple core business is communication and entertainment devices. They just happen to gather a shitload of your data on the way, and ensure that your devices works only with others alike. And they are as evil as well.

I don’t know, interact with other technologies? Access content that the Apple overlords have decided is not good for you? Or just for the sake of compatibility?

For me it’s basically saying “why would I need to learn another language, I can already talk with everyone who speak the same language as me!”

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