It’s also open to current students (at least for my university), I have access to it.
Companies HR usually get their data from aggregated industry data. We employees don’t have access to it. But companies do, and it’s very accurate because to get the data, you have to share your entire payroll first.
The salarium data helps, but the data is from 2018, and I find it on the lower side.
This is a good way to make a one time negotiation mistake stick to you for the rest of your career.
I only use that strategy if I negotiated well at my previous job. If not, my salary history is no ones business. Try asking the recruiter how much they’re paid when they ask that question and see how willing they are to share, vs how open they expect the candidate to be.
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It can still be your plan.
Just know that it might be a contributing factor to be hit by a future layoff wave.
For example: I have just recently seen somebody move from IT to HR, taking their stratospheric salary with them. And they openly said: “This won’t last, but who cares, it’s good money”. 
Valid point. And good of you to mention it.
I should have added that:
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This is not how I did it in the first ten years of my career. What I did was to add a good 15-20% to my current salary when negotiating a new one. I once refused an offer and sent HR back to the hiring manager. I thought I had blown it but they accepted.
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To openly take my current salary as starting point I must know where, more or less, my salary is in comparison to others, and know how much and if there is room for expansion above,
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It might also mean that future bonuses will be based on meeting/exceeding higher expectations than at the lower level.
I am using this tools as a lawyer for divorce 
especially when we have to deal with the other party that don’t want to work.
There is a lot of jurisprudence which precise that after the divorce and because of the principle of “clean break”, the other party has to work to contribute for him/herself and the children if he/she matches different conditions (age, formation, health, etc.). In particular case, the judge can give a “hypothetical revenue” and use this tools to have an information about what he/she can earn.
Honestly if a company rejects me because of what I ask for salary I’d rather not work there to be honest. Shows a lot of how they think about you imo. If they really want to fill the position and they think you are a good fit they will just negotiate with you.
I personally used salarium average + a bit more when I decided what I wanted for my last job, which was already +10% than what I was currently earning. But in hindsight I should have asked more because they came for me and also I knew my future boss from a previous job. Oh well I guess you learn as you go.
I read quite a bit of US forums and they all say that you should never say a number because then you are anchored and the HR will have the upper hand. It’s better from a negotiating point of view to let them come at you with a number and then you can ask for more. But I never personally tried it in Switzerland.
I agree that salarium data is a bit outdated now tho.
What do you say to “We can’t offer you that salary, it would be unfair to the other employees”?
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As if fairness was ever on the mind of an HR person (* HR department is just rolling on the floor laughing their asses off*)
Depending on how bold you are with your statements, you can answer one of the following:
- That’s fine. Then we are not a good match.
- I’m not a standard employee, hence I do deserve the stated amount
- If the other employees can’t negotiate properly, it’s not my problem
This is not working in Switzerland (at least from what I know). You are negotiating with people who are doing this HR stuff every day. Unless you are really experienced in negotiations, they will not give you a number first. In general, this is more of an urban legend, from my point of view. I also read this stuff in books specialized in applying for jobs, and (for me personally) it never worked. Somehow I have the feeling that those authors are more experienced in selling their stuff than actually having real-life experiences.
I think this is partly true. For some companies yes, but for several Swiss companies it’s not. In my last job as an employee, the company (specifically the office I worked in) had a turnover of 30-40% per year. I was a team manager and addressed this topic to HR, but they didn’t care at all. In general, I was not impressed with the whole HR department at this company. As a freelancer now, I see HR departments doing the same mistakes over and over again.
Yes, hiring someone new is more expensive, but a lot of HR people don’t really care. It’s often times just a job for them. Please note that I’m mainly talking about larger companies here, but I’ve seen it numerous times (pharma, banking, medical devices etc). They would rather let a guru leave than to increase his salary. And then they are surprised that they either can’t find a replacement or that the replacement costs 1.5 or 2x more (while still not bringing the same qualities to the table).
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I always found this approach to be in complete contradiction with what Kahneman states in Thinking Fast and Slow - that the one performing the anchoring (i.e. “going first”) is actually at advantage.
I guess that might only be true if the other side (HR) doesn’t already have a “fixed”/decided range.
Any thoughts on reconciling these 2 opposing views?
I mean yes, you screw yourself if you anchor too low. 
But that’s more your fault than the “principle’s”.
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That’s an excuse.
My girlfriend changed jobs recently, and was told that the requirements to the team were changing and that’s why they were hiring more experienced senior profiles like hers. Later, during the salary negotiations, they then told her that she was asking too much and it would be unfair for the others in the team.
Ok so they want experienced and senior and they want cheap?
That’s yet another symptom of short-term thinking that I see so often…
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Yeah as I said I just read it never tried to put it into practice. They were quite adamant about this aspect going as far as just leaving the negotiations altogether if the person in front of you don’t bulge. But I guess it’s also easier to do in the US where there are a lot more opportunities than in Switzerland.
Well I guess there is nuance to it. If you know very well the rates going on for your job and experience and add a margin then it makes sense to anchor yourself first I guess. The idea of letting the HR do it is that they actually have the budget range for the job, so they will probably start by offering average or lower and then you know you should have some room to negotiate.
It’s always easy to write on a forum post and harder in practice 
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Most of the time, HR will already have a range. They are not going into an interview without doing some sort of preparation. Plus, they know how much the other team members / managers are earning.
Anchoring makes sense, but only if you know which range is feasible. If the range for the job is 120k - 150k, and you are asking 220k, you’ll kick yourself out. That’s where I think Lohnsalarium makes sense. Aside from that, headhunters often also have a better overview about possible salary ranges.
One thing from my own experience: make sure to emphasize and clarify about your asked salary. I had the situation a few years ago when I asked for a certain number, and then was put into 5 rounds of interviews without any result. It was a medium sized IT consulting company, and they told me that only the CEO can approve this high salary. In every interview, I was told that the next interview is going to be with the CEO, but then again I had to talk to senior mgmt, team leaders etc.
My assumption: the salary I asked for was too high for them, and they just didn’t want to pay that much.
Unless it’s Google or one of the really large companies: make sure to set boundaries early and don’t do 4 or 5 interviews.
Same here. On the other hand, it’s good for me: the company lost a key resource, and I’m able to help them out 
But you can also try see it from the other side (HR): a lot of employees are not actually willing to leave, even if their salary is low. This can happen because of various reasons: not enough other employeers in the same city, benefits at work, feeling comfortable in the company etc.
So HR is in a comfortable position: they “know” that the guru most probably won’t leave, and that’s why they don’t pay more. Until they piss the person off so much, that they really quit.
YMMD. Aren’t we all Elon Musks in our dream world? 
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HR doesn’t care about fairness.
But if they did, you could say it’s unfair to your family to accept a lower salary. And you are not responsible for your colleagues’ negotiating skills or lack thereof).
Anyway, if a company is trying to guilt trip you into accepting a lower salary even before you’ve started working there, it’s a good sign that maybe you’re better off not working there overall.
What else will they say next, work overtime because it’s unfair to your colleagues who will have to do overtime if you don’t? How about fixing the process so no overtime is required instead?
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This is the direct link to the PDF in English: https://www.michaelpage.ch/sites/michaelpage.ch/files/legacy/michael_page_salary_guide_2021_en.pdf
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I found it hard to find salary information for a research position on all those websites/documents; the closest I see is software engineering. Do you have an idea where to find such information in Switzerland?
I am finishing my PhD in AI and I got an offer in Zurich as a research scientist of 145k (annual salary). I’ve read that it is always good to negotiate, but in my case, I don’t have supports: no other offer, no real experience outside of the PhD, etc.
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I don’t have any experience in research, but no matter what, that’s a huge salary for a PhD with no previous work experience in the field.
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Yes that’s huge for a PhD with no other work experience. I would take it as it is, unless you have tangible/clear proof that you could get more somewhere else for a similar position.
Are you talking about academic research or R&D in a for profit company? For an academic researcher (postdoc) the salary you quoted is impossibly high. For an R&D position it is also very high for somebody with no actual working experience, but who knows, maybe you are that clever and promising. In any case I think it is worth taking this position, even if just for an experience, unless you really want to apply to their competitors.
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Thank you for all your answers!
It’s for a R&D position at IBM. So according to your answers, I will simply accept because it seems a great offer!