When is it no longer worth staying in a job that is slowly burning you out?

I agree, there are always ups and downs, even within the same company, and some periods are clearly better than others.

What makes me more pessimistic is that, at a certain level, I do not think senior leadership really cares that much if some people leave. It feels more like they see it as collateral damage in service of some bigger objective they consider more important, whether that is cost cutting, restructuring, or just the next management narrative.

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I think you touched a very important point, especially the guilt part.

For people wired a certain way, just working to the contract can feel almost wrong at first. It is even harder when you see your manager working late all the time and carrying what looks like an endless number of responsibilities, because it becomes very easy to feel that doing less means not doing enough. Rationally I know that is not the right way to look at it, but emotionally that is where the trap is.

That said, after talking to many people, including people here on the forum, and thanks to everyone for that, I have started building a kind of mental framework that has helped me over the last few days. It is not a real solution yet, but more of a buffer. Something that helps me recover a bit, lower the immediate burnout risk, look for another job more calmly, and maybe also find a bit of happiness again in doing normal things outside work.

The main reason I am trying to do this is not because I am lazy or simply tired. It is because I feel my health is at risk if I keep going the same way. So if I can only give 70% and that is good enough for the company, then fine. If it is not, then I will accept the consequences. Because the reason I am doing this is not optional for me anymore. It feels vital.

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Just a quick reminder. I don’t know if that helps.

They -your employer, management, whoever “in charge”- do not give a shit about anything you’re feeling.

Any care is an illusion to keep you performing and obedient.

You’re responsible of your own life. Nobody’s building happiness for you, especially at work.

It doesn’t mean you can’t be happy at work.

Build it yourself, within your own rules and limits.

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One thing I try to constantly remind myself of is that I can’t help anyone when I’m drowning. Trying to do too much and then breaking all at once isn’t a service rendered to the team.

I can’t testify to it myself, having not experienced actual burnout, but the people I’ve talked to who have gone to that point often relate falling in tears at work, feeling unable to do anything and then years of recovery.

It’s better both for you and your manager if the output you provide is planned, but limited in a reasonable way, rather than if it breaks in an unplanned manner.

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Spot on. In a way @wavemotion the key is the mindset shift to NOT be fooled by the Koolaid, to not feel guilt, but rather feel justified because ‘your employer’ (really: corporate systems in general) are in fact wired to ‘steal’ from you - i.e. underpay, overwork, etc. and make you feel as if they are doing YOU a favor. Once you wake up to that (ideally enabled also with FI) then you no longer are their mental slave.

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Yes. Don’t forget that your manager will need “favors”, overtime etc much more often than you will. And when you will need a bit of flexibility like working from home because you or your family is sick, then unfortunately nobody cannot do anything against the rules. An you will be forever marked as not committed just for asking.

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Yes, that part has become very clear to me as well. In many large corporate systems, people are treated a bit like battery hens. If one collapses, gets replaced, or simply cannot keep going, the load is either shifted to someone else or absorbed by the rest.

The other thing I have noticed is that the more you give, the more it becomes taken for granted. What should be recognized as exceptional effort slowly gets redefined as normal, and then even objectively impossible situations start being presented as if they were reasonable expectations.

That is probably one of the most damaging parts of the whole mechanism. Not only are people consumed, but the abnormal gradually gets dressed up as normal until you almost start questioning your own perception.

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Like a wise colleague said, doing your job well and going above and beyond is the best way to never be promoted.

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These two points have been noted to me by cyn…pragmatic colleagues a few times over the years, along with the meme-level these days “learn to say no” and the outrageous “take care of yourself first” (ok, arschloch, how to take care of myself when you keep piling things on me?).

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stop doing those things. i currently have 1773 unread emails in my inbox.

when someone complains, you say I have X, Y, Z to do. Which do you want me to prioritize? You choose X, then Y, Z has to wait or be done by someone else.

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The key is being though as strategic (because of network / rumors / connections ) but unteliable. Managers will not pile time critical stuff on you leaving you free to surf the internet and send to manager and +1s all those timely updates that are sooooooo important.

Not to brag, but 1773 is nothing :slight_smile:

At two prior companies (one >10000 employees, the other >5000) i had the largest email box and with the largest number of unread mails (at my most recent employer close to 9000). I was forced by IT to radically delete in order to reduce the size of my email account. I wore that as a badge of pride.

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What I’ve seen work better (unfortunately) is nasty people:

  • stealing (your) ideas
  • attaching themselves to successful initiatives which THEY did not start or drive
  • distancing themselves from failures rapidly (regardless if they played a role in it or not)

…aside from the usual manipulative behaviour, lying, backstabbing, etc.

Welcome to the jungle!

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Few years ago my boss went over 10000. We discovered that the red badge of unread messages in the Mac app icons was limited to 4 digits (not sure if it this has changed in the meantime) :joy:

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Ha, I’m at 16k in my main inbox right now. That said, too many are automated messages/issue tracker updates. At some point I was in an email list that got like 1k messages/day, that got filtered out fast :upside_down_face: