I used to delay sleeping to try to claw back as much ‘self time’ as possible, but it was counter-productive as I never got anything useful done at this time and was then tired the next day.
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“revenge bedtime procrastination”
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100%
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The revenge bedtime procrastination thing is so real. I did that for months. Staying up til 1am doing absolutely nothing productive, just scrolling or watching random stuff, because it felt like the only time that was actually mine.
What eventually helped me break out of it wasnt willpower or some sleep hygiene trick. It was realizing that the reason I was clinging to those late hours was because I felt trapped during the day. And the thing keeping me trapped wasnt actually the job - it was that I had no idea what my options were. Like, I literally didnt know how long I could afford to not work if I decided to leave.
Once I sat down and figured that out - just a rough number, nothing fancy - the evening panic kind of faded. Not completely, but enough. Because suddenly I wasnt just enduring each day hoping for the weekend. I had a number that told me “you have options, they’re just not infinite.”
Doesnt fix everything obviously. But knowing your actual runway changes how you experience even the bad days.
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That sounds like very good advice, and I think I should probably do the same and run the numbers in a more detailed way.
Realistically, even with my notice period, and even if I decided not to look for anything immediately and just take a few months as a “free man,” I would not be in trouble. Like many people here, I am not actually one step away from disaster. The harder part is more mental than financial.
That is also why I am trying to work on the mental side of this more broadly, and on my mindset in general. Talking to different people, including here on the forum, is helping more than I expected. It does not solve the problem by itself, but it helps me see things more clearly and feel a bit less trapped.
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Same here. The problem was that I had no free time as every day is:
- Wake up
- Sort out kids to get them ready for school
- Go straight from that to work
- Straight from work to kids activities
- Then cook kids dinner
- Get kids washed and teeth brushed
- Reading to kids and bed time
Then I have maybe 9pm until bedtime to myself.
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That schedule is brutal, and I know it well. The 9pm-to-midnight window becomes this weird pressure cooker where you’re supposed to “relax” but you’re actually just running down the clock.
What helped me was reframing that window. Instead of “this is my only free time” (which creates anxiety about wasting it), I started thinking of it as “this is where I build my exit plan, 30 minutes at a time.”
Even just tracking your actual expenses for a month, not budgeting, just tracking, gives you data you didn’t have before. And data reduces anxiety more than Netflix does 
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That’s exactly what I mean. It doesn’t have to be precise, even a rough back-of-the-envelope number changes the game. What I did was basically: liquid savings + any accessible investments, divided by my monthly burn rate. That’s your runway in months.
The interesting part is what happens psychologically once you see it. If it says 14 months, suddenly “I could quit tomorrow” stops being a fantasy and starts being a math problem. And math problems are solvable.
For Switzerland specifically, don’t forget to factor in your PK capital, it’s not accessible right away, but knowing it exists as a backstop changes the risk calculation. Agree?
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I am also going through the same daily schedule, with two kids under 5 
What helped me to make a better use of all small windows of free time that I have, was to really think on how do I want to better use my free time; that was setting up some daily priorities lists and do some of those activities in this interval. So now I use the 1-2h free evening time maybe doing sports, or sauna, reading, playing with my net worth spreadsheets, watching Ben Felix while doing dishes, or a tea with my wife etc. I force myself not to go on social media or Netflix and it works. When one just stops grabbing the phone and thinks a moment: ‘‘what is the best use of my time for the next hour?’’, one can get some very good answers. And when there no answers, then maybe one doesn’t know exactly what one enjoys doing… and that’s where he/she needs to start.
There were some discussions on this forum about FIRE people who also struggle to find meaning in life or activities - regardless where we are - maybe we just need to spend more time thinking at what do we enjoy doing, assuming we can do anything, and then do that for the limited time when we can do it. One good place to start is, asking, if tomorrow I could do anything, what would I do?
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That is actually something I discussed recently with a friend.
In the evening I do tend to fill my free time with what I would initially call “productive” activities, but the problem is that my definition of productive is often questionable. A lot of the time it means checking macro news, looking at markets, watching charts, following developments, and things like that. It gives me an immediate sense of stimulation and dopamine, and in the moment it makes me feel like I am doing something useful. But if I am honest, the real return is often quite small compared to the extra mental load and stress it adds on top of an already demanding job. That is something I am trying to reduce.
Then there is also the truly unproductive part, the random scrolling or passive time-wasting it was mentioned before, and that makes even less sense. That brings almost no benefit at all and is probably actively counterproductive.
In the end, sleep is likely the number one thing I should be protecting as a life priority, and yet it is often the first thing we trade away. So I think your point is a good one: it is not only about having free time, but about being much more honest about whether I am actually using it in a way that gives something back.
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I would say this is exactly the opposite of what you rather should do. Instead, to relax, read a book written not less than 20 years ago, the older, the better.
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In my view, it doesn’t have to be productive all the time. But it has to be what YOU want, you need to accept that you WANT to spend time in a specific way and OWN it. If checking news is bringing you great joy, then do it, but think a bit before, like ‘how much time do I want to invest in it’? Is 10 minutes enough? 20 minutes? And stick to it. Same for looking at markets etc. And if you do that today, maybe you skip it tomorrow and do something else.
The hard questions are, what do I want to do with my time? What do I like doing? What would I do if I could do anything now? Our brains are tricky and they push all kinds of thoughts in our heads, all the time - it’s like a competition of thoughts - so you also need to observe that. I had the tendency to pick up the phone and check ‘stuff’ when having a free micro moment (a few minutes or seconds). I stopped doing it, and now I just observe the thoughts coming in my head, and I map them: I classify them as useful (for example planning what to do around the house) or junk (overthinking about stuff that I can’t control or over stressing about stuff that is out of my powers). All of this helps to see where you are in a specific moment, just give yourself the time to observe what goes through your mind and cluster it in categories. It’s harder that it seems
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Thanks, I really appreciate this perspective as well.
On the first part, I do try to do that, but I find it harder than it sounds. Some of those activities genuinely attract me more than others, even when I know the actual return will probably be small, delayed, or partly imaginary. Part of it is the pleasure of learning and exploring, which is real, but the line between that and overdoing it is quite thin.
I also try to put some limits around the time I spend on those things, and I agree that it makes sense in theory. The difficulty for me is that it can start to feel too mechanical, and I already have a strong tendency to optimize everything. I know I should apply more of an 80/20 mindset, but instead I often end up trying to optimize even things that are not worth optimizing.
On the second part, there are actually several things I would like to do that have no real “return” other than making me feel better, and maybe that should already be enough. The problem is that I often feel I do not have enough time, and even when I do try to make time for them, I am frequently too tired to really engage with them properly.
The example of instinctively grabbing the phone is a very good one, because that is exactly the kind of habit I should avoid. In those moments I could probably do something more useful or at least less harmful, even something simple around the house, but of course that creates less immediate stimulation and feels more boring.
What I find very interesting in what you wrote is the idea of mentally mapping thoughts and separating what is useful from what is just mental junk. How did you actually learn to do that in practice, and how did you train yourself to choose the more useful or less damaging option in those small moments?
I learned it through a simple form of meditation, where you just need to observe your thoughts as often as possible. What you will see is that a lot of time you are stuck in the past or in the future, thinking about things that you can’t control. For example, if you have a surgery next week and you stress about it, being everyday stressed is nonsense from the moment you took the decision to do the surgery. Your mind will be trapped into it but it will bring you no good at all. Goal is not to get to a point where you absolutely don’t think about it anymore, but just being conscious about the fact that is stresses you out, without bringing any good, and maybe it’s better just to move on, wait for it to happen, but (trying to) focus on something else until then.
Just observing the thoughts that come in your head, will help a lot in making the good decisions in the hard times. For example, when I get angry because of the kids, I am very fast in acknowledging that ‘‘here it comes, am going to snap?’’ and this makes it easier to mitigate or it takes way less time to stay angry, once you ‘‘notice it’’ what is happening to you. In short, it’s about being present here and now and seeing what thoughts are coming in your head. If you think a lot about the past or the future, you do it now, in the present, everything happens now. So being more in aware and in control of each present moment will make things easier with time.
If you want to try meditation, I recommend Waking Up app.
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- Are you getting enough exercise?
- Can you disconnect your brain from work thoughts and to dos over the evenings and more importantly the weekends?
- Do you have enough energy to do fun things with your friends and family (or even plan to do them) or is the weekend just recovery for the next work week?
- Some workplaces are designed to keep the employees so busy that it’s impossible to have the energy to look elsewhere.
- And elsewhere is also an unknown - however there is probably a job out there that you can enjoy for a 1/2 decade at least, even if it’s the same job you have with some more boundaries
Good luck!!
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Yes, fairly consistently. I exercise at least 30 minutes around 5 to 6 days a week.
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These days, yes, I can disconnect mentally better than before, at least to some extent.
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That is probably the biggest issue. Weekends are mostly recovery plus basic life maintenance, cleaning, groceries, laundry, house tasks, and things like that. Not much real energy left beyond that.
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That is exactly how it feels to me too. It is not only that finding another job takes time, it also takes mental energy, focus, and study, which are the same things this kind of work environment keeps draining.
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I stopped believing a while ago that there is some perfect alternative out there. At this point I am not looking for “much better,” just for something less bad and more sustainable.
Thanks, I appreciate it.
At least you are getting some good exercise in… I don’t think I’ve ever had a job where the workload was ‘always good’, but there were times better than others. The main thing that made the difference mentally is whether or not I felt like part of a cohesive team or if it was more of a pass-the-buck mentality from teammates or leaders.
I think when it comes down to it… if it gets so bad people deal with it in a few ways:
- Solve the problem internally with some open discussions (a good team)
- Solve the problem by burning out
- Solve the problem by mentally checking out and/or looking for a new opportunity
Also what I’ve also witnessed is workers who put in a lot of effort but dont realize they might be a keystone or more valuable than the company shows them (so they get disgruntled)… and thats a risk for both the company and the employee.
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Additional option 4. Work to your contract
I.e. do a good job but stick religiously to the 40 hours (or whatever) you have in your contract
- Start at a normal time
- Take a proper mid day break (lunch? sports?)
- End the day on time, close your laptop, don’t use phone to look at emails
…it may trigger a feeling of guilt at first (but why?) or a sense of “what should I do with my private time” but that’s good to face and answer.
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Had a conversation with my brother last night, who’s having similar thoughts with those expressed in this thread and he reminded me of this, which was and remains highly accurate.
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This is a pretty bleak job market, companies know it and either compress salaries offered or increase workload on current employees as they have less options.