Yeah I’ll transfer our Viac accounts to the lending bank and pledge it. There will only be one single Saron mortgage for the whole amount. Amortisation is 13k/year indirectly over the pledged 3a accounts.
I hope that the value will someday increase to at least 1050k. So that the LTV will be reduced down to 66.66% without reducing the actual mortgage. That way we could free out all pledged assets and transfer the 3a accounts back to Viac.
With such a huge difference between SARON and 10 year fixed mortgage, what is the rationale for still choosing fixed over SARON ?
I feel like in 2024, VIAC does not give the best rates anymore, is it because we are at the end of the year or the trend will last? Currently the 10 years fixed rate is at 1.36%, compared to 1.1% offered by UBS. And when I tell VIAC about the answer was that their rate can’t be negotiated…
I think the rates are reasonable considering current conditions. We’re past the near zero rates from Covid times, but rates seem to be heading down now, so maybe they’ll improve if you wait long enough.
They never did. It’s just that you can get a 100% mortage with pledging the fully invested 3a what makes them stand out to others.
I think bank WIR is seeking deposit right now rather than selling mortgages. That’s what the local banker told me 6 months ago when I approached him to refinance rental property.
UBS really offer 1,1% right now for new customers without négociation and with only 20% downpayment?
Seems pretty competitive I’m this case.
Don’t forget they will charge you 0,75% on a 3A while VIAC I’d only making 0,4% and you can really customise your strategy now
Currently with 0,65% SARON which is not bad since banks habe increased their margin
Hey!
Actually, I’m a bit lost myself. Everybody seems to point to VIAC/WIR for mortgage, but here are the 2 offers I’m comparing now, and my broker is (obviously) telling me I would loose ~53k in 10 years by going with VIAC:
House: 1’650’000.-
UBS:
VIAC/WIR:
Does it make sense to actually choose UBS?
Depending on your ability to take risk I would take the biggest mortgage possible with WIR 100% SARON and keep as much cash as possible
In the last 40 years SARON win 85% of time…
Maybe the 3A not 100% equities to avoid a potential “margin call” by the bank. 60/70% is wiser
How much do you have on your 3A?
The rest you didn’t use as a downpayment you can invest it to keep the same Asset Allocation after the deal
Hey @gravel
Thanks for the reply. Maybe I’m missing your points.
keep as much cash as possible
In both case I must provide the 106’000.- cash, so that’s cash I can’t invest.
2a withdrawn or not, it’s not gonna be more than 1.5% interest rate
3a I could manage to have similar yield (maybe a bit less with UBS)
How much do you have on your 3A?
All in all, 120k with my partner.
The rest you didn’t use as a downpayment you can invest it to keep the same Asset Allocation after the deal
Not sure here what you mean by “the rest”.
Because amortization difference is 884/y (interest composed => 133k/10y)
Also the interest is lower at UBS, so mensual costs is quite less too, so more cash to invest… (also because the interests are on 1’542’000, not 1’320’000).
WDYT?
PS: I’m not super comfortable with the SARON risk 
Just on your 3A 120k invested @ 5% during 10y give you 75,5k interest
100k on the 2A at 2,5% give you 28k
Withdrawing 2A to reduce interest payments why not because you can contribute back if you change your mind. It’s not the case with 3A. I already withdrawed twice in the past and I really regret!
Maybe get the 5Y @ 1,18% it’s compromise between SARON and 10y
In the end I went for a 100% SARON mortgage since VIAC/WIR has a lower margin than UBS (0.65% vs 0.79%), betting on the 10% fixed rate to get closer to 1.00% in the coming months. I feel like UBS adapt its rate quicker than WIR. So I’ll be loosing a bit in the first few months on the interests to maybe spare 20-30K on the long term.
Why are you not able to pledge the existing 3A with UBS ?
But the SARON offer with VIAC/WIR you have a 3 year contract isn’t it? You’ll be able to switch to a 10Y easily but not changing bank without paying the The SARON margin for the remaining months of your contract. Or maybe I miss something?
you can contribute back if you change your mind
What do you mean by that? Won’t I be always contributing to my 2n pillar as I work?
120k invested @ 5% during 10y give you 75,5k interest
I agree, but also the interests lower, I can set aside the cash & invest on ETFs on IBKR, thus kind of canceling it out (and at least that is “available” cash).
@Dom Did you go for UBS? I’m interested in your calculations as we are in the same choice situation 
@HoiZame Unfortunately they won’t bulge
Is it an affordability or a house valuation issue ? Looks weird to me because if you pledge the 3A that’s more revenues for them (more interests and more management fees on your 3A assets).
@HoiZame It’s linked I think to our ratio of debt…
Nobody actually mentioned anything about the valuation of the house.
@SoleneChiche I went for VIAC cause I’m taking the bet that the 10 years SWAP rate is going to fall down to 0 or even in the negative https://www.investing.com/rates-bonds/chf-10-years-irs-interest-rate-swap-historical-data.. In that case, the choice of bank does not really matter anymore. I chose VIAC over UBS because while I’m waiting for the rate to go down, I’ll pay a SARON for a few months, that is cheaper with VIAC than UBS