Let me start by saying how useful this blog and forum has been especially for someone who barely knows how to speak the canton language like I do. I’ve received the dreaded letter to fill my taxes but I taught I was ready this year. I’ve started my investments in ETF’s and some loose stocks (like 3 ) which I’ve held over the course of last year and still do to this day on Degiro but I’m having trouble filling them in my taxes. I’ve tried following the greatly detailed post on the blog (which has helped me thoroughly so thank you) but I feel like I may have some weird situation going.
First and foremost, I would like to know what’s the actual deadline for tax filling? According to the letter I received, it should be the 15th of March but I read online you can deliver it until June without any input required from you whatsoever, just let the deadline pass and deliver it when you can before the second deadline. Is this true or is my French failing me? Sounds a bit counter intuitive to me. For personal reasons I will be out of the country past the 15th of March and I’m not sure Degiro will deliver me the automatic yearly report on time before I leave.
This leads me to my second question: is there another way to extract the required information to fill the taxes report without waiting for Degiro’s yearly report? I would like to not have this in the back of my mind.
The third question is, I have a almost 50:50 ratio of Distributive and Accumulative ETFs (both of them available in ICTax). I’m wondering if I need to do any fancy input like it describes on some other blogposts or if I can follow the described steps on this post and just fill the “Bank tax statement”?
I’ve had some bad experiences with a fiduciaire so far in Switzerland so I hope you can understand why I’m bothering you with this but I’ll gladly appreciate any input you can give me even if partial.
That’s correct, you can read it here, under “Personnes physiques” (= Individuals). The deadline to submit your tax declaration is March 15th, but they will tolerate if you do it before June 30th without you having to fill any requests.
If you want you can request to move the deadline to September 30th by filling out the form on the same page (but you must do so before June 30th). Those extensions are automatically granted, so it doesn’t hurt to request it (except if you can organise yourself better by having a close deadline).
Sorry, not familiar with Degiro and their reporting capabilities.
AFAIK VaudTax is not integrated with ICTax, and that’s what makes it painful in VD (*). I would assume you can NOT go with the simplified approach of the “Bank tax statements” because the tax office will get lost with your accumulative ETFs (as I would assume Degiro is not reporting the “internal” dividends, so you need to add it manually to the total and then it won’t match the statement). Best is to declare each position separately in “Fonds de placement” (= Investment funds) imho.
(*) In other cantons (e.g., ZH or SG) you can fill the number of shares you had at the beginning of the year and your trades (buy/sell) and they compute automatically your dividend income (including both distributive and accumulative ETFs) from ICTax, and the number of shares at the end of the year.
I personnally put all my shares manually and yes this is painful in Vaud, depending on the existence of transactions and/or dividend or not. You can open ictax then look for your security there and put the data in VaudTax. If you only have 5 positions, that will be easy. Especially because next year, the ISIN will be saved in your tax file (I still don’t understand why they don’t keep the quantity of shares from the end of the previous year as the starting position for N+1)
Now I’m a bit confused. Can you give me an example on how to introduce my positions manually? I don’t mind it being tedious and exhaustive but I genuinely don’t know which section to fill. According to the Mustachian post I taught I had to fill it under the shares section but now @anneaun is suggesting in the “Fonds de Placement” but I’m not sure which information to input.
I have 3 ETF’s and 3 stocks. The ETF’s I bought over the year (so multiple transactions) and I already managed to get that information from Degiro. In all I have 15 buy actions over the course of the year so should it be 3 entries in shares and 3 in investment funds or the 15? I suppose I can use ICTax to calculate what I already got taxed as they hold that information correct?
If it’s a fond de placement, can you help me understand the fields:
Not that straight forward, we need to distinguish a few things and you haven’t provided all the information regarding your positions. Let’s go quickly through the fields, and I will try to help you to the best of my ability. I will focus solely on ETFs (not stocks).
Type
Most likely private.
If you are independent and hold those position as part of your business, that would be “commercial”.
Pays de l’institution bancaire dans laquelle sont détenus les fonds de placement
Here is your broker domicile, i.e., The Netherlands (=Pays-Bas) in the case of Degiro.
Numéro du compte de dépôt ou du relevé fiscal (facultatif)
Well, it is optional, but you can give your account number at Degiro as it appears on the statement.
Description ou désignation de l’établissement
Here is the name of the ETF. Enter it as it is shown in ICTax, e.g., VT would be “Vanguard Total World Stock ETF, Valley Forge, PA, USA”.
Numéro de valeur ou N° ISIN
Put the ISIN or “Value number” as per ICTax. Note that the detailed view shows you only the “Value number”, the ISIN is visible on the search view. I assume that your Degiro statement shows only the ISIN, so put that one.
Nombre de parts au 01.01.2024
Self-explanatory.
Avez-vous perçu des revenus?
That’s where we need to distinguish a few things.
Accumulative ETFs: you have to select “Revenus non soumis à l’impôt anticipé et non soumis à l’impôt étranger retenu à la source” as no dividends were actually paid out there is no WHT.
Compute then your gross dividend income considering the number of shares you were holding at the distribution time(s) and using the values from ICTax.
Distributive ETFs:
If the fund is domiciled in Ireland, there no WHT when the fund distributes dividends to foreign investors, so you have to select “Revenus non soumis à l’impôt anticipé et non soumis à l’impôt étranger retenu à la source”.
Compute then your gross dividend income considering the number of shares you were holding at the distribution time(s) and using the values from ICTax (without WHT).
If the fund is domiciled in USA, then you have to select “Revenus soumis à l’impôt étranger retenu à la source”.
In “Pays qui a retenu l’impôt étranger à la source” select “États-Unis” (=USA).
In “Revenus bruts en CHF” enter your gross dividend income you compute from the ICTax values (it should match your Degiro statement once the currency is converted).
In “Montant de l’impôt étranger en CHF” enter the WHT tax paid. It should be 15% of your gross dividend income provided you have filled the W8-BEN with Degiro.
I’m now realizing that I need to fill differently depending on the Accumulative or Distributive . Should have really researched more on how to fill the taxes but people told I just had to deliver Degiro’s Yearly statement which I now realized is not true. On top of that, Degiro’s filters and export functions are a bit underwhelming.
For reference I have
VANGUARD FTSE ALL-WORLD UCITS ETF
ISHARES CORE SPI ETF (CH)
ISHARES CORE MSCI WORLD UCITS ETF USD
Shares
AMD
Apple
Qualcomm
I may need to simplify my portfolio for this year, for sure I’m getting rid of my shares and may get rid of either the accumulative or distributive ETF as I’m not seeing advantages in having both.
I think I’m starting to grasp how to do it. I’ll start filling it on excel.
Right now I’m wondering:
How I can check if I had WHT or not so I don’t always bother you. For example, in the Swiss ETF, it’s in the swiss market so I assume they WHT but how can I be sure?
My shares are all in the NASDAQ so I assume they are based in America? I’ll have to fill it according to your description for american ETF’s? This should be simpler as I only bought once and they are really low value so I assume I don’t need the DA-1?
It’s too easy to buy this kind of things nowadays and not clear enough how to fill it . Good thing there are awesome people around like you all!
You can see WHT from your broker statement, and your Swiss ETF is indeed subject to 35% CH WHT.
ETF / Stock
ETF / Stock domicile
WHT
Recoverable?
VANGUARD FTSE ALL-WORLD UCITS ETF
IE
-
-
ISHARES CORE SPI ETF (CH)
CH
35% in CH
By filling your tax declaration in CH
ISHARES CORE MSCI WORLD UCITS ETF USD
IE
-
-
AMD
US
15% in US
Through DA-1
Apple
US
15% in US
Through DA-1
Qualcomm
US
15% in US
Through DA-1
It looks like your US stocks are the only ones relevant for DA-1, and the tax authorities will process your DA-1 only if your are claiming at least 100 CHF of recoverable WHT. If you haven’t reached the threshold you can select “Revenus non soumis à l’impôt anticipé et non soumis à l’impôt étranger retenu à la source” when you enter your US stocks positions (but you still need to enter your gross dividend incomes, i.e., before WHT which is unfortunately lost) and you enter your net dividend income (gross income minus WHT) in the “Revenus bruts en CHF” field.
Steuerpflichtige, die die Anrechnung ausländischer Quellensteuern aus einem der vorgenannten Gründe nicht beanspruchen können oder sie nicht beantragen, können verlangen,
dass die in den Vertragsstaaten in Übereinstimmung mit dem
anwendbaren Doppelbesteuerungsabkommen erhobenen
Steuern vom Bruttobetrag der Erträge abgezogen werden
(Nettobesteuerung).
Ah-ah, you are right, just learnt something.Thanks for pointing it out!
I did it wrong then with my own tax declaration the first year I started investing.
Thank you for the help so far, I think I’m pretty much done! Let me know if there’s a way that I can pay you a coffee .
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) which I’ve held over the course of last year and still do to this day on Degiro but I’m having trouble filling them in my taxes. I’ve tried following the greatly detailed post on the blog (which has helped me thoroughly so thank you) but I feel like I may have some weird situation going.
. Should have really researched more on how to fill the taxes but people told I just had to deliver Degiro’s Yearly statement which I now realized is not true. On top of that, Degiro’s filters and export functions are a bit underwhelming.
. Good thing there are awesome people around like you all!
.