I know people who spend years building their perfect off-road vehicles. They think a lot about things like the best heater, the most efficient fridge, or if a roof tent is better than a pop-up roof. But sometimes, they forget the most important part: actually going on the trip. In the end, they might just go camping nearby and never use their vehicle for a real adventure.
This reminds me of what I see in this forum. There is a lot of helpful financial advice here. But I think some people are so focused on every small detail about saving and investing that they forget to think about what happens after they reach FI.
I reached my FI goal four years ago and left my job soon after. Since then, money details has not been my main focus anymore. Instead, I was confronted with existential questions:
Who am I now that I donât work?
What is the meaning of my life?
What do I really want?
What makes me happy?
How can I be useful to others?
I donât have all the answers yet. Iâm still figuring things out. And maybe some of these questions donât have one clear answer. But thinking about them has changed how I see life. And I had to think about them after leaving the default path.
Lately, I read interviews with people who reached their own idea of enough. I really recommend reading them. They show what life can look like after FIânot just having no job, but having the chance to discover who you really are.
Of course, you can make your life easier and the journey more enjoyable, when you donât wait to ask yourself these questions until you hit an imaginary number.
Very good points youâre raisingâthey really resonate with me, perhaps also because Iâm currently on vacation on a beautiful beach and have some free time to view things from a more detached perspectiveâŠ
Would you mind sharing a bit more about your journey (age, single/couple/kids, FI number, etc.) ?
Thanks for sharing. This is something I really need. It was great for me to visit a friend who had FIREd, but it is hard to get the mental space to plan and imagine your retired life when you are always running from work to kids.
But there are nice quotes in there which reminds us that time is ticking:
âI used to take my kids on Sunday to eat breakfast, and it embarrasses me to say that I thought, âoh man, Iâd rather just drink some coffee and sleep in.â
At that moment, 15-20 years ago, I would have given anything to have the Sunday [I have now], where I can do anything I want today. Nobody needs anything from me.
But man, Iâd give anything now to have one of those back.â
I never understood people who want to FIRE but have no idea what to do once work doesnât take up most of their day.
Counter question to people who donât know this - if you identify yourself that much with your job that it makes you who you are, do you really want to quit or are you after FI but not necessarily RE?
My job doesnât define me. This is why I want to RE.
I liked my job and I liked the people I worked with. But there were two reasons I wanted to stop working:
It takes too much time. I like to travel for longer periods of time, like to really know a foreign country and that you cannot do in a few weeks. Work takes away more or less your complete day. I like to decide spontaneously what to do.
Transportation is a bitch. Trains feel like livestock transports, going to work by motorcycle is almost suicide and by car it takes much too much time and nerves. Got better with home office, but still. I even tried to live in the city, but did not like the people⊠and of course the extremely expensive apartments.
So I just stopped working, more than 11 years ago. Did not miss it one single day, but I still think about it sometimes. When I stopped I said to myself you can start again working whenever you want. But I just did not wantâŠ
First, I agree that itâs dangerous if your whole identity is entangled with your job. You will provably have a more stable life if you have multiple pillars your identity rests on. However, I think you are not doing yourself a favor if you are separating yourself too much from work. For most of us, itâs the activity we spend most of our waking hours on.
Second, itâs less obvious how you will spend your time once you RE than you might think. Form personal experience I know that itâs different 3 weeks, 3 months or 3 years after leaving my job. And I assume it will continue changing.
As I wrote here in the past, I did several sabbaticals between one and two years which were open ended. However, there is a big difference between this and RE. Time horizon really matters.
Why would you have to replace anything if you already have it?
On topic, I also donât understand people who struggle with FIRE but I do believe them because Iâve seen it first hand. I say âwonât ever happen to meâ, whatâs more likely is that FIRE wonât ever happen to me
A few naive comments to your points above:
Who am I now that I donât work? - Iâm the same person I was before, as I stopped being defined by my job since I left academia 15 years ago
What is the meaning of my life? - same as it was before, enjoy my time on earth while also elevating my loved ones/my surrounding
What do I really want? - to not have stress for finances and have enough to do what I want
What makes me happy? - same as it always did: friends, family, sex, music, food, weightlifting, motorized vehicles, reading/learning, photography, crafts
How can I be useful to others? - donât care other than for ~10 people in the world, for whom I am always trying to be useful anyway
Iâm not sure why you mix identity with FIRE. For me these are two separate topics. Just because I work, it doesnât mean that I tie my identity with that work or in fact any other activity I spend my time on. I guess this might be a personal thing and that others do.
The way you phrase your question implies that you if you donât want to RE, then your job defines you.
There are many reasons for a job other than identity (and I suspect most workers, esp. those in non-vocational jobs, donât identify with their jobs e.g. cashiers, shelf-stackers). Finances are an obvious one, but assuming you have enough money to RE, so is believing that you are doing something that has social value, or doing a job that needs to be done, being a productive part of society/economy, achieving something, or enjoying working with your colleagues.
Interesting perspective, how did you manage the financial aspects? I would stop working sooner but do want a certain lifestyle. Did you quit when you hit your goal or quit earlier?
But I think it sounds like your identity wasnât based on your job. You knew what you would do or more accurately what you want to do with your time. Doesnât quite fit the situation I was describing.
Looking up to my PhD supervisor, he was a millionaire by his mid 50s by selling a start-up he co-founded, went on to work until 70 and is still active in writing, speaking etc.
I feel that drive to FIRE implies not liking ones job, and indeed so many jobs are mundane and physically/mentally destructive, but if they arenât then why stop working?
But there certainly are people like that. And thatâs what OP was describing.
No, my question is the other way round. If you donât know what to do with your time because your job is what you are, then Iâm saying do you really want to RE? I am not saying that not wanting to RE means you identify as your job. Thereâs plenty of good reasons not to RE.
I think to some of my old bosses who were quite advanced in their years and had more money than I will ever have, but still worked every day and often very long hours. I guess some people love working in their job so much they will never RE.
However, I donât think FIRE implies not liking ones job, it may just mean you like your job, but you like other things even more. Or for those focussed on the FI part, just want some financial security.
Donât forget that some people need to maintain a lifestyle that demands huge costs, and for whom nothing is ever enough, and I think this is also part of the topic.
Exactly, why would he? Heâs got enough - actually lived in a very nice but also very modest house behind the university library, enjoyed good food, wine, got to talk science with equally passionate people from around the world, mentor people, teach students, do research, read and write about research. Itâs the usual âmake your hobby your job and you wonât work a day in your lifeâ, he even said âwhen it goes well, academia is being paid to playâ.
I think of people like Warren Buffett who donât need to work and probably have enough to live their lifestyle.
My boss had more than enough money. I canât say what his lifestyle costs were, but since he headed to the office at 6am and left very late, he didnât really have much time to spend it. Perhaps his family spent it for him. He was working in M&A and lived for the energy/stress/thrill of the deals.
I had enough of being explored by the financial industry and thought I can manage my pension money better. And yes, I can. Because I can take risks a pension fund cannot take.
I had no goal, the universe doesnât care about your goals. I still donât have one. I did put a theoretical performance target of 10% for my dividend strategy and 20% for my momentum strategy, but already the first year I did not reach this (per today it is at 10.46% and 26.92% per year).
Earlier I thought to pay back my debt when reaching what I have, but now I think this is nonsense as money has a state guarantee to lose value. So money-wise I just continue doing what I ever did⊠but with more money. And with more time.
Some of the OP questions relate to other threads. Iâve answered there before.
And I write again today, as I read news that a very public profile German businessman, Wolfgang Grupp of Trigema, tried to take his own life, not long after passing on his company to his children. So, again, under no circumstances should you retire early (or at all) if you donât know what to do with your time. And if your job defines your self esteem, social circle etc.
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and have some free time to view things from a more detached perspectiveâŠ
