Having a job was never a problem. Being dependent on a job is a problem as it makes us vulnerable
This is why I prefer FI rather than FIRE
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+100 to this!
For me, the question has morphed a lot over the past years.
From a 2022 post, elsewhere…
I’ve gone from
“How can I exit this as quickly as possible and what shortcuts do I have to take?” (finite game)
to
“How can I refactor this to do it forever?” (infinite game)
So overall I try to find an answer to the following:
- What would have to be true about a world in which I continue working for pay way past the point of needing to?
- What would I work on?
- Who would I do that with?
- How would the setup look like?
- What the hell is it all for?
And I’ve personally come up with a suite of great answers that suit me. And once they don’t, the setup would allow me to change my mind again
That was my take three years ago and to my mind, the answers I’ve come up with work well for me.
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I asked an LLM to turn my list above into a table for easy formatting as I thought I’d inadvertently created a retirement checklist i.e. what do you replace those items that a job gives you with something else after retirement. The LLM did something in addition and actually suggested some items:
| Item | Substitute |
|---|---|
| Money | Passive income, investments, or part-time work |
| Social status | Community involvement, volunteering, or mentorship roles (or in my case, “just don’t care” |
| Structure | Personal daily routine, hobbies, or creative projects |
| Meaningful work | Volunteering, mentoring, or pursuing passion projects |
| Something to keep you busy | Hobbies, learning new skills, or creative endeavors |
| Daily interaction with people | Social clubs, family time, or community events |
| A social network | Joining interest-based groups, online communities, or local organizations |
| Opportunities to learn | Online courses, workshops, or self-directed education |
| Problems to solve | Puzzles, strategy games, or personal challenges |
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I think you should start a blog/vlog… Chronicles of FIRE
Would be of great help for others because you are going through these practical challenges and maybe solves some of the variables on your list too 
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I am that person. You want to understand me? Well, I never knew where my career would take me. I started off as an insecure graduate who just wanted to have a job. Then, gradually, I nudged into the direction of doing what I was good at, what I was praised for, and what was promising financially. Think of it as finding a local maximum. Just look around from where you stand, and “yep, this way seems to be going up”.
All along the way I didn’t ask myself “is this my passion”, “do I really enjoy this”. All I knew is that I need money to survive, I can sell my time for money, so it’s best if I can get the most money for the time sacrificed.
I think you look at it the wrong way. I do not identify myself with my job. It doesn’t make who I am. It’s just how I’ve become to be most productive, with productivity being measured by what pays the most per unit of my time. The anxiety does not stem from the fact of leaving my beloved job. The anxiety gets triggered by the feeling of uselessness and boredom, becoming depressed because of not having any idea or motivation to do anything when you get up in the morning.
My job doesn’t define me either. But it’s who I trained to be and it is what gives me value in the society. If I stop doing it and move on to some half-assed hobby in which I suck, I can’t be bothered to be motivated to really get good at it. First, I’m late to the game, and second, I can only respect myself for doing productive things. Otherwise, I don’t see the point. It’s too ingrained in my mentality.
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Did you not get bored by travel?
Did you not get depressed by becoming useless?
Did you not get anxious about becoming too comfortable and lazy to ever start working again?
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I used to cycle before covid. It was a great 20 min ride in the nature. But now it would take me 1 hour through the middle of Zurich, and let’s be honest, Zurich bike paths are virtually non-existent, and riding on the street next to the cars is very stressful.
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In ZH city, pedestrians need to worry about their life due to bikers. Bikers need to worry about their life due to cars
Maybe they need to visit NL to see how bike infrastructure should be
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Which is a first world problem.
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I guess it’s about finding something that will give you a steady supply of “meaningful” dopamine.
It reminds me of a recent tweet by Naval. His advice is…
https://x.com/naval/status/1874982214569693199
I saw your link to the blog series. Have you found any inspiring books about finding meaning in life or finding things to do in life when you don’t know what you want to do? I asked ChatGPT and Grok, and both recommended to me this book by a… concentration camp survivor. Haven’t read it yet tho. Man’s Search for Meaning.
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You sure about that? Driving in Zurich is more stressful for me than driving in Athens, and that’s saying something. I gave up going to Zurich by car - I don’t live there - because it’s just too much of a pain with the number of cyclists, pedestrians, prams, dogs, vegetarians etc running around. As a motorcycle rider I’d be afraid to ride in Greece, whereas riding in CH is a pleasure, excellent road behaviour by 99% of cars, 99% of the time.
Too many entitled boneheads on bicycles in CH, the other day in Basel a cyclist dressed like Lance Armstrong ran a red light, I had to slam the breaks, my kids nearly got eviscerated by the seatbelts, not to convert him into funny-coloured dog food. Guy didn’t even bother looking at me.
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And cars need to worry about other cars, blitzers, and finding a parking spot.
Not sure how much can be done. It seems like a city that hasn’t been destroyed in the war doesn’t have much space for new bike infrastructure. Oh, let’s just paint some yellow line on the side of the road and be done with it.
To be clear, I’m not complaining. I’m just explaining how I got here, doing something that doesn’t excite me, but pays well. So, once I’ve saved enough, I would be tempted to quit, but I have no idea what to do instead. If I loved my job, I could just continue doing it. If I hated it, I would quit. But it’s this gray zone which makes you second guess yourself in perpetuity.
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Actually by biker , I mean cyclists
I didn’t mean motorbikes
I drive in Zurich, I didn’t see many issues for myself. I feel worried about cyclists though as there is no real lane for them on 50kmph roads
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Yeah you really need to know the city, I only go through one way (except for cyclists) 30 kph streets. It’s usually low traffic, not traffic lights and pretty chill. Just avoid all the big arteries (things like 2 lines of car with a bike lane in the middle…)
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Can they keep up with 50km/h traffic? If not then they’re not safe to be in 50km/h traffic. That’s why motorways have a lower speed limit restriction as well as a higher.
I cycle on 50km/h roads all the time. There’s no need to ‘keep up with traffic’. Cars will overtake you.
Have you tried switching to something you like?
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Actually that’s the whole thing.
Cycles cannot always keep up with cars , this means cars need to overtake them
But I think e-bikes might manage that speed.
In general, cyclists need to know the 30 kmph roads if they don’t want danger.
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