The end of IBKR + VT: a cheaper, safer, less US-dependent alternative

The threat that changed the calculus

Section 899

In 2025, the United States came closer than most retail investors realised to fundamentally repricing the cost of holding US assets from abroad. The standard 30% dividend withholding rate on US equities could have climbed to 50%. Crucially, existing exemptions for sovereign wealth funds, state pension funds, and public enterprises would have been overridden.

The “One Big Beautiful Bill Act” passed by the US House of Representatives included a provision titled “Enforcement of Remedies Against Unfair Foreign Taxes” that became known as Section 899. It would have authorised countermeasures against investors and companies from jurisdictions the US deemed to impose “unfair foreign taxes,” explicitly targeting the OECD global minimum tax (Pillar Two), digital services taxes, and diverted profits taxes.

Section 899 was ultimately removed from the bill following “diplomatic negotiations”, or as we say on this side of Lake Geneva, tout le monde s’est couché devant eux :expressionless_face:

But Section 899 is not gone. Senate Finance Committee Chair and House Ways and Means Chair have explicitly stated they “stand ready to revive retaliatory measures if other parties slow-walk implementation of that agreement.” Several countries, including major US trading partners, still maintain digital services taxes that the US views as discriminatory against American tech companies.

To the extent those taxes persist, Section 899 (or a successor provision) remains a loaded weapon that Congress has demonstrated both the will and the legislative mechanism to deploy.

The risk is structural and not resolved. Don’t count on Guy Parmelin or Karin Keller-Sutter, because… Well, just look at those F-35 :face_with_bags_under_eyes:

Estate tax

Non-US residents holding US-situs assets (which include US-listed ETFs such as VT) are subject to US estate tax at death on those assets above a $60’000 exemption. Unlike US citizens and residents, non-resident aliens receive no lifetime exemption beyond that $60’000 threshold. A Swiss investor holding Fr. 500’000 in VT at IBKR faces potential US estate tax exposure on nearly the entire amount.

Switzerland does have an estate tax treaty with the US that provides Swiss residents with a significantly higher exemption. However, this treaty protection is subject to the same structural vulnerability: it depends on the US choosing to honour and maintain it. Given the demonstrated willingness of Congress to use tax treaties and withholding rates as geopolitical leverage, relying on a bilateral estate tax treaty as a permanent shield would be, let’s face it, stupid.

Treaties can be renegotiated, suspended, or simply overridden by domestic legislation. Treaties may not exist tomorrow, and you have no control over that outcome. Just ask the Iranian people, they know :pensive_face:

Taken together, Section 899 withholding risk, estate tax exposure, and US custodial dependency, carry a structural concentration of US political and fiscal risk that is difficult to justify when cost-competitive European alternatives to the standard IBKR + VT setup now exist.

Broker: Degiro over IBKR for European ETFs

The “IBKR is cheapest” claim is only true for NYSE-listed ETFs. On SIX Swiss Exchange:

Broker Fee on SIX Min fee Stamp duty Custody fee Entity
Degiro ~€2 flat €2 No No Dutch
IBKR 0.05% CHF 5 No No US
Saxo CH 0.08% CHF 3 Yes (+0.15%) No Swiss
Swissquote 0.10% CHF 9 Yes (+0.15%) Yes Swiss

Degiro wins on total cost. Swiss stamp duty adds 0.15% per trade on foreign securities. Degiro has no Swiss stamp duty as a foreign broker, and no US custodial exposure.

On a side note, I just played with OpenSteuerAuszug and it is promising, for both IBKR and Degiro portfolios: You can generate Swiss tax statements rather seamlessly. So far, I didn’t spot any errors and will certainly use it to declare my dividends moving forward.

Degiro caveat: execution quality

  • Smart Order Router: Degiro routes orders either directly to market or via Morgan Stanley’s Smart Order Router depending on the venue. The SOR optimises for Degiro’s own criteria, which may not always align with obtaining the tightest spread for the end investor. This is a concern for less liquid ETFs where bid-ask spreads vary (sometimes by a lot, I’ve been burnt by this one!) across venues.

  • PFOF: Payment for Order Flow has historically been a concern with Degiro (it’s the practice of routing orders to market makers in exchange for rebates) and it can disadvantage execution quality. The EU-wide PFOF ban takes effect on June 30th, 2026. However it is unclear whether we are safe from it. If we fall outside the scope of the ban, the execution quality improvement that EU retail investors will benefit from post-June 2026 may not apply to us.

In practice, for large liquid ETFs on SIX (ACWIS, EXUS, XMME) the spread impact is likely small. But for newer, smaller ETFs with thin order books, execution quality deserves scrutiny.

Switching to swap ETFs

A physical Irish UCITS ETF holding US equities pays dividends to the fund after the US withholds 15% at source (reduced from 30% via the Ireland-US treaty). On a ~2% dividend yield, this is approximately 0.30% per year permanently lost at fund level. As a UCITS holder you cannot file a DA-1 to recover this; the DA-1 only works for Swiss residents holding US securities directly.

A swap ETF does not hold US equities directly. It receives the gross total return of the index via a swap contract, meaning the full dividend is captured before any withholding. The advantage of the swap structure is the elimination of the irrecoverable foreign withholding layer.

On an unfunded swap structure, the counterparty posts collateral (typically G10 government bonds) to the ETF, which limits counterparty risk significantly. The EU’s UCITS rules also cap counterparty exposure at 10% of NAV.

Feel free to challenge my comparison for the US equity sleeve:

VT at IBKR Swap ETF at Degiro
TER 0.07% ~0.05%
L1 US withholding drag Recoverable through DA-1 0%
Swiss income tax Yes Yes (same)
Section 899 risk Structural Eliminated
US estate tax risk Treaty-dependent Eliminated

New Portfolio: Cheap ETFs from European providers, listed in Zürich

Sleeve Weight ETF Interim (if AUM too small)
US equity ~65% Xtrackers MSCI USA Swap II UCITS (IE000PDUVTF3, 0.04%) Amundi S&P 500 Swap (LU1135865084)
Dev. ex-US ~25% UBS MSCI World ex-USA UCITS (LU2807512947, 0.09%) Xtrackers MSCI World ex-USA (IE0006WW1TQ4)
Emerging markets ~10% BNP Paribas Easy MSCI Emerging UCITS (LU3086273813, 0.09%) Amundi EM Swap (LU2573967036)

Deliberately excluded American providers: BlackRock iShares, Vanguard, SPDR, Invesco.

  1. Blended TER: ~0.057%, and no L1 withholding drag, versus VT’s 0.07% TER
  2. Your tax money stays mostly in Switzerland. Few rebalancing trades. No DA-1. No US broker. No US provider.

Single-fund alternatives (and none is perfect)

BNP Paribas Easy MSCI ACWI UCITS ETF (LU3086265710) is very young and has a LU ISIN, but also has a TER of 0.06%.

Xtrackers FTSE All-World UCITS (IE000L6ZMMC4) is even younger, and physical. But listed in Swiss francs in Zürich for 0.07%.

Good old Amundi Prime All Country World (IE0009HF1MK9 and IE0003XJA0J9) might be the honourable deal for those who insist on a single-fund portfolio. Physical replication, TER 0.07% and listed in Swiss francs with a sizeable AUM.

UBS MSCI ACWI SF (IE00BYM11H29, ticker ACWIS on SIX in CHF) is swap-based, Irish-domiciled, with approximately €1.7 billion in AUM. Its TER of 0.21% looks expensive compared to physical ACWI alternatives, but once you account for the absence of US withholding drag, it becomes competitive.

Open questions

  • Any other European brokers worth considering for Swiss residents, with low flat fees on SIX and European custody?

  • Are there better ETFs out there? Ideally:

    • Swap, Unfunded
    • IE-domiciled
    • EU/CH provider
    • Listed at SIX
    • In Swiss francs.
  • Do Swiss residents benefit from the EU PFOF ban at Degiro after 30.06.2026, or does it only apply to EU-resident accounts?

  • What is your Degiro execution experience on SIX, particularly on spread quality via the Morgan Stanley SOR?

  • Do you see errors in what I wrote?

  • Do you have comments?

Thank you :kissing_face_with_smiling_eyes:

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Good that you fo you to dig into the implementation. I want to add: You must directly compare the total return before taxes to know how much leakage vs. the gross index exists. Swaps can hide leakage. And then also subtract all taxes between the fund and your bank account that are paid until it is actually your net return.

Wow, interesting. I will need to dig in, but yes, I felt uneasy with how the US has been handling things, that my assets are all in IBKR (even if I preferred Trump to win, oh the irony).

I wonder, is there also a way to profit from the growth of the NASDAQ100 without holding US assets directly AND without having to pay stamp duty?

maybe I missed, but wouldn’t IBKR + IE domiciled ETFs be competitive as the first alternative to IBKR + VT? low currency conversion charges, good execution quality, and no stamp duty at IBKR. And keeping EU domiciled funds (+ LU domiciled in case of swap based funds).

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When applicable, I would add the FX fees/FX margin. Ex. Swissquote, 0.95% at purchase/sale from/to CHF when buying in another currency.

Rather than small print, you also have to wonder what the market will price these swaps after a shake-up of withholding taxand double taxation agreements.

Buy a European NASDAQ-100 index fund at any European (Polish?) broker. There’s half a dozen swap-based on JustETF.

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PFOF is not necessarily a bad thing, it makes sense for market makers to offer rebates (tighter spreads) for non-toxic flow (ie retail), and you’re anyway going to get something as good as the public bid/spread (I assume EU is similar to US and brokers have some duties when executing trades).

In any case for a buy and hold investor it won’t really have any impact either way.

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FWIW if you take into account the US withholding tax leakage, LU2903252349 at 0.17% TER ends up with similar cost (since it replaces the US and emerging markets with swaps), with more potential for lower TER if it becomes more popular.

edit: that said I do believe that diversification is good, but I also think that the US is unlikely to give up it’s biggest asset (being the primary financial market) overnight (just making noises about it would accelerate rebalancing away from US equities and USD).

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Good questions! You are right, let’s put thing into perspective:

History doesn’t repeat itself, but it often rhymes

Mark Twain

  • How would the markets react to the threat of a one-million-deaths war starting in 2022 in Europe?
  • How would a G8 economy and major oil producer react to the threat of all its stocks becoming untradable (instantly and irrevocably!) in 2022?
  • How would markets react to the threat of sweeping tariffs, including 39% tariffs on Swiss goods, happening overnight?
  • How would the markets react to the threat of the center of political powers in the world becoming the center of blatant, unabashed insider trading?
  • How would markets react to the threat of the center of political powers in the world being invaded by putschists wearing bullhorn helmets?
  • How would the markets react to the threat of the complete closing of the main energy transport route in the world?

There are sometimes real-life consequences. Not everyone dies or gets ruined, but there are always unlucky ones. The next draw might be yours, or mine.

In all of the seven periods since 1973 where oil spiked 40% or more, the S&P 500 sank into a bear market in every case except two. The critical historical lesson is that markets bottomed in December 1974 even though the embargo had already ended in March 1974. The economic damage (stagflation, central bank tightening, recession) outlasts the conflict itself by many months. The worst market outcomes tend to be tied to prolonged oil shocks and macro stress.

I know for a fact that the world is now run by fools. I cannot entirely decouple from the US, but I can try to mitigate the most obvious dependencies impacting my hard-earned money.

I see no incentive to buy US funds at a US broker. It adds completely avoidable risks.

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Of course and by definition. This is the internet. I kid you not, I just asked Claude a question on this niche topic, and she answered quoting me, the most random dude on the internet :sweat_smile:

Yes but honestly, I stick to funds traded in CHF and in Zürich. Even UBS has ETFs for as low as 3 bps. We have so much choice now, that I see no reason to handle several currencies.

Interesting. I can report that I had many ETF trades executed by Degiro at my limit price. I typically got better deals (meaning, better than my limit price) at other brokers. It might or might not be a coincidence.

What I do know for sure, is that an AFM investigation in 2017/2018 found that some client orders were being executed by MNF, a hedge fund under the same holding company as Degiro (LPE Capital), leading to less favourable execution for clients. This was a serious conflict of interest, since resolved after the Flatex acquisition.

The “in every case except two” formulation for a sample of 7 occurrences is a bit misleading. We’re talking a 71% chance of the statement being true, with an accuracy of +/-38% (so we could say with 95% confidence that, given many more occurrences, the actual probability of stocks entering a bear market after a 40% oil price spike should be between 34% and 100%).

I wouldn’t derive a general rule from it.

On the topic: what is wrong with IBKR UK for a Swiss person to hold non US assets?

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Honestly? If I want to decrease my financial dependency to the US, I’d rather not wire money to Interactive Brokers LLC, One Pickwick Plaza, Greenwich, Connecticut :person_shrugging:t4:

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Please read the Forum Guidelines before contributing further.

Would anyone like to share an opinion about this portfolio? The blended TER of 0.057% is better than what we had before, but I want to make sure I don’t miss something important.

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Makes sense. Forget I said anything.

Looks fine. Fwiw back when I was optimizing purely on ter, I found it hard to stick to a 2 or 3 funds portfolio (when one element over/under perform year after year, you diverge from the market cap weighing, I found that hard to manage while sticking to a purely passive approach).

Also be prepared to pay more for transactions (it’s not just how ridiculously cheap the fees are on IB for US venues, but the spread is also much tighter), but that’s a one time 0.X% drag that won’t matter for buy and hold.

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Currently, the drag on physical funds because of WHT is pretty low. You can switch to another ETF within minutes and for a negligible cost.

Why not stay with a low-TER world ETF for now and switch when your scenario comes to pass? By then, these swap-based ETFs have higher AuM and there will most likely be more of them.

PS: there’s a Scalable/Xtrackers world ETF where the US and China stocks are swap-based. Doesn’t trade on SIX yet, though.

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I can definitely see that. The overperformance and volatility of US markets makes disciplined rebalancing a bit harder. Especially now that insider trading from the White House is blatant.

You are right, but there are funds with tight spreads on SIX. You can download a daily report and sort by spread percentage here: Market Quality Metrics in active and passive ETFs | SIX

For example, yesterday, the average spread of UBS Core MSCI World UCITS was 0.04% and the one of UBS SMI was 0.03%.

It is of course better on typical rebalancing days, with higher volumes.

That’s a good idea. I imagine the maximum drag would be around 0.30% for a US sleeve with full physical replication.

However, with some compromises (and on a day of high liquidity) I am under the impression that I could (mostly) make this work now, and at least switch to a UCITS Swap for US markets.

After all, the US sleeve is the critical one, and UBS Core is not a bad deal for the EM sleeve. What do you think?

Tracker ISIN TER Fund size Replication Exchange Currency Spread (today)
Amundi Core S&P 500 Swap LU1135865084 0.05% CHF 13’500 M Swap, Unfunded Zürich USD 0.05%
UBS MSCI World ex-USA LU2807512947 0.09% CHF 123 M Full replication Zürich USD 0.12%
Xtrackers MSCI World ex-USA IE0006WW1TQ4 0.15% CHF 5’000 M Full replication Zürich CHF 0.08%
BNP Paribas Easy MSCI Emerging LU3086273813 0.09% CHF 60 M Swap, Unfunded Zürich USD 0.21%

Thanks for sharing.

I feel a little uneasy especially around inheritance tax as death could come all of a sudden while withholding tax increase can be managed over time.

I would also prefer i) a single ETF; ii) physical

while synthetic are safe, I worry that something that can wrong or just take too much time to withdraw my money and lose some in the interim during a downfall (I didn’t check whether this accurate or not but something i feel safer)

the last point is why CH/Zurich necessarily. IE domicile may be marginally cheaper.

I always considered Claude being a male AI :slight_smile:

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