Going mental today again 
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sorry pedro, it seems you are worried about the energy and power consumption of electric cars. Where was your worry when they were building oil pipelines?
Just for a comparison an average tesla driver would require every year:
15’000 km /per year x per 190 Wh/km (average Tesla Consumption) = 2825 kWh per year.
For a comparison, the East-West Intercontinental Oil Pipeline (EIWOP) is pushing 200’000 barrels of oil per HOUR using 100 booster stations with 12 pumps per stations rated at 3700 kW power per pump. So total mechanical power consumption of this pipeline (which is 1200 km long “only”) is:
12x100x3700 = 4.4 GW of mechanical Power. With 90% pump efficiency, this would mean 4.9 GW Electrical Power, multiplied by tot of hour in one year:
4.9 GW x365x24 =~43 TWh of electrical energy per year.
If you would use this energy to power up electric cars, you would be able to feed 15 millions of Tesla per year.
43’000’000’000 kWh / 2’850 kWh =~ 15 millions cars
And this pipeline “just” connects the two side of the arabic peninsula. And is one of the many electrical energy consumer over the oil production and transportation.
So again where were you when such things were build in Europe? and there are multiple of such pipeline in Europe as well. Why were you not crying and saying that the grid was going to collapse?
Becuase the oil industry has been very good in hiding this kind of numbers and impact from the public.
I have even read that research to try to get numbers from oil producer to produce accurate reports has been heavily suppressed. One possible forecast is that switching to electric cars would actually REDUCE the amount of electrical energy needed, and reduce the impact on the power grid globally. I will see if I can find the researcher claiming this. But is very difficult because oil producer are killing any kind of investigation in this.
But insticntively it may make sense because of how more efficient the electric cars is. While researching, extracting, refining and transporting oil can be extremely electricity hungry.
Big data analysis to speed up geologist research to identify new oil wells requires huge supercomputers with incredible electricity comnsumption. For instance the new supercomputer from BP has 160’000 cpu in 2013, so with a consumption of around 50 W per CPU you have 70 GWh of electricity consumption per year, something like 25’000 Tesla per year JUST TO PROCESS DATA to search for oil field at one supercomputer (out of many) of one company (out of many).
Where were you when SHELL was opening such centre in Europe? Why were you not protesting the electricity consumption?
Some sources:
https://www.pumpsandsystems.com/pumps-and-systems-transcontinental-energy-transfer
all european pipeline:
https://theodora.com/pipelines/europe_oil_gas_and_products_pipelines.html
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Thanks, that’s really interesting. Yeah, it seems tiresome to have to argue with people, who bring up high initial ecological footprint of EVs due to the battery. And how many miles you have to drive to “break even” with the ICE car. Whereas the ICE car, somehow magically comes to life, does not use up any resources to manufacture, and the oil also magically appears at the gas station. Once you consider the full end-end big picture, EV is multiple times more ecological than an ICE car, and this gap will only keep increasing.
I wonder if we will watch Tesla every month and every year till their share price is at 20’000$ wondering why ne never bought it? 
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At least we know that when you finally pull $20’000 out of your pocket, the next day TSLA will tank under $1000 
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Battery for live power ? lol
It’s a dream of batteries producer may be or some ecologists but it just not possible yet 1% or less yes but not more. Battery = a dam simply and not so small but you can go look what is a battery for maintain frequency during energy peak. Dam are used in Switzerland for give power to CH, IT, FR when everyone use a lot of power at something like 12h or 18h. Yes when you turn on a power central should give you this power even if cloud who give you 0 Wh on a solar panel or no wind at all. It’s a little difficult to wait sun or wind for can turn on a light why we need 24/24h 7/7d power generator. And something like a dam for peak energy and nuclear power who give constant power for base power usage and not empty too quickly our dam and keep more water possible for peak and not have black out somewhere.
You just not imagine a country consumption each seconds. Look Swissgrid really nice website who explain all about electricity, frequency, consumption and current load on the high voltage line. That’s the current CH/EU frequency : https://www.swissgrid.ch/en/home/operation/regulation/frequency.html
Less than 50hz we not produce enough power, more than 50hz we produce too much power someone need to regulate that and turn on/turn off power central or open a dam for produce some minutes later a lot a of power for peak energy. Wind/solar are uncontrollable central too small and we can’t control wind or sun yet.
Better explained here : https://www.swissgrid.ch/en/home/operation/regulation/grid-stability.html
Explanation about base-load energy/peak energy here : https://www.swissgrid.ch/en/home/operation/regulation/winter-planning.html
Here you are live import/export power to other countries : https://www.swissgrid.ch/en/home/operation/grid-data/current-data.html
And frequency trough europe you should keep looking this website when we go to shutdown another nuclear power without replace this base power central.
Nothing other than thermal/river central or other nuclear power but nothing other because need 24/24h 7/7d constant power for keep frequency stable.
You never look anything when you have to vote ?
Everyone should know all of that for the future of Switzerland energy but France have exactly the same problem when too reduce down all nuclear power and count on Germany for provide energy in the future nice choice !
Hydrogen consume much more energy due to a lof of los power during conversion than all other and almost not transportable so when we have too much power we can create hydrogen without issue. Now just impossible and we just going to pay more and more power and a nuclear reactor need 10 or 20 years for build a new one so it’s already too late !
Damn, your posts are very hard to read. I think you should really try to improve your English, no offense.
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@Grog
Probably not on this planet because not really new and not really a lot of pipeline here 
You take the weigth of the Tesla almost 40% more weight than a standard car ?
1000kg for transport 80kg people and with tesla is something like 1800kg for transport 80kg so yes an electrical motor if more efficient that’s sure but weight is here.
Tesla change nothing to that we need oil for all other thing. Tesla car or not change anything about need these pumps and pipeline for all other.
Gas pipeline probably the same and come from Russia. Tesla change nothing about gas pipeline too. Because this energy is already included in the 30% energy consumption what is worry me it’s the 30% more fuel car consumption who can be add to energy consumption and we want to stop 40% of our central power. So 15% produced for 45% missing due to electric car and population who refuse to produce power.
Increase from 30 to 60% electricity power.
40% another source of power gas/oil/other who still needed in the near future change nothing to that and your pump continue to pump oil and gas
Electrical efficiency almost taken down by the more weight of these car due to battery, battery self discharge with time, battery power lost due to heat production, cooling of the battery for not overheat due to fast charge because no one want to wait 24h for load his battery even for a smartphone. Why a tesla without be recharging can be bricked after one single week…
I’m sorry but research about oil is VERY VERY important. It’s because we have oil than we can build tunnel and understand ocean floor because no own invest for research what we have under our feets. We know more space than our own earth and only oil company invest for deep drilling. And can help us all to us unlimited and free power delivered by our planet by geothermal energy but look who permit to advance in geothermal clean source of energy OIL COMPANY !!!
I speak about Switzerland don’t care about energy source of other country. France have a majority of nuclear power and are almost independent just need some peak energy from our dam. Germany not know but seem the country who should power EU because all countries count on them. Italy probably not have enough current and Austria just not know.
Sorry Cortana but I write quickly. I’m giving out a few hints after everyone should already know about this and be out looking for themselves.
Pedro is very difficult to understand anything you write. But there is a lot of misinformation that you are spreading.
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i was answering to your worry that electric car will break the power grid. No, is not going to happen. eOn, one of Germany largest electricity provider, said that is not a problem (unfortunately behind paywall)
https://www.wiwo.de/my/technologie/mobilitaet/praezise-berechnet-haelt-das-stromnetz-die-e-autos-aus/25926284-all.html?ticket=ST-10737647-vgVafTatJv4S6ydi4E0A-ap1 -
70% of oil is used for transportation, 45% is used for personal small cars. So yes, if you exchange electric cars you greatly reduces oil needs and all the infrastructure with it. Refinery, pipeline, supercomputing, oil ships, etc. All of them requires lots of electricity to build and maintain. This electricity can be used for electric vehicle.
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autarchy concepts in grid production is ridiculous. Switzerland is integrated in European grid and any notion of autarchy is wishful thinking. And by the way the best option for autarchy is solar+hydro+batteries, not nuclear since the uranium comes from Kazakistan and Russia.
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average weight of a new car in Switzerland in 2018 is 1680 kg. So I don’t know what you are smoking to talk about 1000 kg.
Having said that, to me the best solution is always and will always be the bike (or ebike)
But this thread is about tesla and the energy transformation.
And is time to stop spreading misinformation.
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I try to share most information with all people. A lot not want to know and it’s their choice. Everyone have an Internet access and can learn about all so just spend time before voting or take any decision or relay news.
Market is the same you can trust Tesla but I give you some advice about potential problem can come quickly due to lack of solution. Geothermal or thorium reactor (more stable nuclear power) are probably the only way but it’s probably already too late due to research still in progress.
Battery another issue and when a tesla car burn all go directly in air and are really toxic.
No a lot of people speak about that
@Grog sorry too
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I’m talking about the situation in Switzerland. I don’t know the case of Germany. They’re shutting down all their nuclear reactors too and all the other countries are counting on them. Yeah, I can’t read the whole article sorry.
The price of electricity is rising and will rise in several countries and the shutdown of nuclear power plants without any real solution is likely to lead several countries to a production issue. May be not for Germany but still have coal really bot better. UK too and some north country continue to burn peat. -
In Switzerland it’s 25% electricty/35.4% fuels but plane/boats and other need always fuels can’t be replaced soon. I can’t know or calculate the impact of these industries they’re going to keep on going or may be just reduce import.
Your have all here for CH : https://www.bfe.admin.ch/bfe/de/home/versorgung/statistik-und-geodaten/energiestatistiken/gesamtenergiestatistik.html -
We can’t always rely on others and if everyone relies on someone else it’s not going to be good. Solar and battery come from China and are transported by airplane not think that’s better
Nuclear isn’t only uranium but thorium for molten salt or deuterium for fusion.
The solar system works from 9am to 5pm when no issue due to weather can’t be a base source of power like wind and other. Hydrogen consumes so much power and loses too much during conversions you can forget that without solving production issue. -
Where you catch this information and what type of vehicles included in this weight ?
For reduce consumption they need to reduce weight. A standard fuels car have a weight of 1200kg a Tesla isn’t the same range
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We can speak about the consumption for the batteries production. Recycling and finally when a tesla burn how contain all these toxic particles to go everywhere ?
Fuels emit CO2 and fine particles but it’s still less toxic than batteries burning. -
We can talk about energy losses due to transformers not 100% efficient and transfer on high voltage lines because they are loss too and we can’t be powered from China in EU like we can be powered by distant countries due to losses.
And I have still no source of base power for whole EU to replace nuclear power plants.
I’m just telling investors to be careful about tesla and her price. Ecologist are cool but not accept nuclear, hydroelectric power,… Take electric cars and push them because you won’t be able to power them.
I’m not for oil and like electricity but we need to produce electricity for convert all on electricity but we can return to local wood and coal that’s working very well too.
A standard range Model 3 weighs 1’611 kg. A long range AWD Model 3 weighs 1’847 kg. A comparable car, an Audi A4 Quattro 185 kW has a curb weight of 1’585 kg, plus gas. Please don’t spread misinformation.
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Check out these charts. The switch to wind & solar in Germany is happening at an astonishing rate. I think what we’re missing is storage for when it’s not windy/sunny. Now imagine millions of cars, each with 100 kWh battery, which can store that excess energy and stabilize the grid (V2G).
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Yeah, of course some change of paradigm and some good will is needed, but this is always the case when a proposal to change the status quo arises…
Someone above made some good example related to the switch from horses to fuel propelled cars… 
Make that +385% 400%, not even a week has passed. Crazy market.
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Bojack… we have a break Mitsubishi Lancer wikipedia say : 1240–1350 kg
Now we have a smaller electrical car (space a lot reduced) Hyundai Kona and wikipedia say : 1,535–1,743 kg
And like you want compare same car fuel VS electric weight this model is perfect same manufacturer same model and look the weight :
1,233–1,350 (2,718–2,976 [lb]) (1.0)
1,290–1,478 kg (2,844–3,258 lb) (2.0)
1,401–1,517 kg (3,089–3,344 lb) (1.6T)
1,535–1,743 kg (3,384–3,843 lb) (Electric)
But of course misinformation and electrical car is lighter than a fuel car now. It’s a flying battery who follow the electrical car with a cable
And strange than I found weight range and your weight are very precise 1611, 1585, 1847 kg really nice. Hope the driver not eat too much lol
Gross power : 225.7 renewable and 420.3 THERMAL power generation (base power because can be regulated easily 66.71% + biomass/hydro power and uncontrollable source a little less than 33.289% who still minority.
GOOD power source : biomass, hydro, (solar uncontrollable need to stay low), (wind uncontrollable need to stay low), (nuclear not emit any CO2 directly but waste which I’m sure we’ll be able to reuse in the next few years or in the molten salt power plants. Radioactivity = a lot of energy remaining in these currents “waste”. We should spend more money for recycle all these waste and transform that to power for us and our children.)
BAD power source : oil, natural gas, hard coal, lignite
Wind/solar are independent source of power and cannot be controlled due to weather instability. Offshore wind work probably better and are more efficient than onshore but I not look/check real production compared to the wind turbine max power. Onshore in my country is about 30% rate compared to wind turbine power so run about 7/24h. You should read what happen during 2006 European blackout may be you can understand better the problem with wind turbine, solar plant or any independent power. Wind turbine are a part of this issue problem. Nuclear power is an issue too hard to stop because need long time for goes up again look serie Tchernobyl because probably not know what happen there like a lot of people.
Plug your car for power a country you will probably destroy quickly your battery but if you want to spend 20k/30k usd (battery replacement price) more often for help/power your country it’s really nice.
Chinese have invested massively you can read that : https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/robinhood-envy-china-tells-its-population-flood-stocks-repeat-2015-bubble
Be careful but you enough gain for sell before lost too much I think
NIO is listed on Nasdaq and Chinese have no access to Nasdaq. This is the cheap TSLA for those who can’t afford $1400 a share ;-).
Both bubbles, so … whatever.
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That’s the weight of some tesla batteries :
Model S 75
Model 3 LR
- 480 kg (See page 14 here)
- 80,500 Wh based on 350 V * 230 Ah (page 3 here) = 80,500 Wh.
- Energy density= 80,500 Wh/480 kg= 167.7 Wh/kg
You can compare with a tank about 1 liter = 1 kg (fuel is a little light than water but it’s more easy).
(Tank weight is really light aluminum or may be something like kevlar for protect no ? )
I just not know about motor too complex because a fuel motor weight a lot but are smaller and smaller now for reduce consumption with turbo for increase power.
Electrical motor is a copper coil who weight a lot and depend the number and size of electrical motor inside the Tesla. Not one smaller by wheel or one by axle with a differential ?
EDIT : gear box is more weight to add compared to the electrical model :
manual gearbox usually approx 40-50kg
auto boxes usually approx 80-90kg
A locomotive have a really big copper coil and take a lot of power for start but one time launched not take a lot of power why it’s so efficient. (and not use battery)