Dude, my numbers are exact, because I took the exact model. Is it so strange to you that you can weigh a certain car down to a single kg?
All the following cars are AWD and have roughly 260 kW power:
Because they are a lot of car and different feature.
You can’t compare a car with different car. Why not take Mini, Skoda fabia, small vehicle who weight less than 1200, 1300kg ?
Try another electrical car manufacturer like Hyundai with same model and fuel/electrical if you want compare fuel VS electrical weight. You can’t choose a Tesla (model S weight between 1900kg and 2000kg) and another manufacturer randomly because you can take a Hummer H2 too : 6,400 lb (2,903 kg) - 6.0 L 6,614 lb (3,000 kg) - 6.2 L
You can take too speed model with full carbon who weight nothing like Lotus Exige : 1,054 kg
Please be honest Bojack
Sorry @Pedro but the Model S you can compare with the Mercedes E400 mentioned by @Bojack in the post above. They have the same weight.
@weirded
I don’t want compare an EV car model with another manufacturer fuel car model. It’s just not possible at all.
I just want a proof than the same car with fuel engine weight more/same than an electrical car like Bojack write. Hyundai say than electrical car need more weight and it’s normal due to battery weight. And it’s the only way for compare WEIGHT between a fuel VS electrical car need the exactly same model of car.
If you change model and manufacturer you can go to power, weight distribution, torque, max speed, autonomy, recharge time and each engine have these own specificity so you just CAN’T compare by taking random models from random manufacturer and compare just weight.
I checked the weight of a Skoda engine 1.2l TSI 110hp - EA211 weight 97kg probably something wrong because it’s too light but it’s not my passion a car so sorry just a way of transport like train, boat,… You take 45l fuel at 50kg (about 5kg for tank), 100kg engine, 50kg manual gear box, 20kg 12v battery and you have a weight of 220kg it’s less that’s just a battery and you need this minimal weight of battery even in a smaller and lighter EV. So you have ~280kg of random mechanical part specific of fuel engine before reach only one tesla battery without electrical engine weight. That’s explain probably the ~400kg weight of the Hyundai model between 1.0l and electrical model.
If I choose an ecological car it’s for lower consumption, lower cost (fuel/electricity), lower cost per km and can last for long. For the moment and my point of view an electric car is more expensive due to initial price, increase cost of power in next years and need constant power supply (fuel engine not need power for not be used. Yes the 12v battery but less and can last during months), more weight due to battery only, change of the battery each X years but car can last longer because electrical engine is just a coil of copper and can’t failed if the frame does not rust.
I don’t want to continue the discussion about car weight. I just pointed to cars with similar specs to Model 3: similar power, 4 wheel drive. Model 3 is a powerful and premium vehicle, it is not a small car. What I found interesting is that especially diesel cars are heavy.
France Independent in Energy : Bullshit. Most of the Uranium is coming from Africa (Niger to be exact). Guess why the French interevened in Ivory Coast and Togo to maintain/change Regimes since Niger is a landlocked country. French companies leave a total mess of corruption, outraging pollution and Health issues behind.
Weren’t you supposed to sell at +20/40%, according to your rules? 
What similar spec ? It’s 100% different engine which each have strength and weakness. A tesla can let these four tires in the first start if you let full power of the electrical engine because just limitless if you let draw unlimited current and battery sustain that. Tires aren’t capable to sustain this power why train use full metal tires for this power. It’s just not possible with fuel engine because just not enough strength at the start.
A tesla is a car in ecological theory but weight and cost just too much due to battery for replace all actual cars less than 1000, 1500 or even 3000kg hummer with the tesla brick. Electricity is probably an issue soon if no one move and the same vehicle have less weight with an actual fuel engine.
And yes when you can’t compare one vehicle to another vehicle you search the worst example because a Lotus is a powerful and premium car too but weight less 
France with all these nuclear reactor can provide power without issue if they don’t shut them down almost independent switzerland provide a part of peak energy to France.
We have uranium in switzerland if really needed even not exploited source yet.
And nuclear =! uranium but uranium, thorium, deuterium and fission waste who can be used as fuel for molten salt.
but Tesla is not only about electric cars. Is about safety as well, and is currently the safest vehicle with the safest software function for people/bike detection etc, both for US and Europe safety testing certification autority.
In 2017 in Switzerland there were 13.4 Billions of CHF in one Year of External costs that the state/health insurance had to pay because of transportation. 7.6 billion are from small, private cars, and so divided:
3.3 Billions yearly of cost caused by air pollution
2.125 Billions chf yearly for costs caused by noise pollution
730 millions caused by accidents
You can “unlock” billions of state and health insurance costs and use it for infrastructure with electric and safe cars.
I mean some of these numbers for switzerland alone are incredible: we lost 88’000 tons of cereal because of air pollution.
Source: Swiss confederation:
Well Pedro, it seems to me that - fore some reason - you are trying to steer this discussion (which is already OT) in a completely unobjective way with really extreme statements and not so many supporting FACTS…
On this basis I fear no constructive dialogue is possible 
Quick question, I saw that Renault had an interesting Level 4 autonomy car as a prototype, which accordint to some sources performs better already than a Tesla. On what Level is Tesla right now ? Because this would mean that Tesla is not light years away from competition on the software side as everyone is saying…
I think we have to consider software in general and self drive capability as 2 separate entities.
Independent from real self drive capabilities, at the moment there is an issue related to country legislations which has to be dealt with before we can see the real capabilities of these veichles
At the moment, the available features are basically adaptive cruise + lane assist, therefore mostly supportive during highway drive - if taken with grain of salt
It’s a popular tune, that competition is “just around the corner”, or there is a prototype, or they plan to achieve this goal in 2025. Lots of marketing, and very little concrete evidence. Getting to full autonomy will be very tricky and will probably require training a neural network with millions of miles of footage, getting the edge cases right. It doesn’t matter who gets first to 90% autonomy, if he’s stuck by his approach/technology.
Well the car was on the road driving totally by itself, just some safety guy. I just wanted to understand how it compares to Tesla when it said Level 4 autonomy. I know France has a lot of knowledge in the AI area (one of the reasons FB opened an office in Paris).
For the record, I am not saying Tesla is bad, just want to have an understanding if they are really so advanced as it is said on certain aspects. I think it is fair to say that on battery Technology etc. they have a real edge, on the software side I am more like ya maybe, but not that much….
What do you mean exactly b “stuck by his Approach” ? Not having the right EV ? The right marketing ?
Simbioz?
Btw I liked the first comment LOL
BMW will skip all the levels of autonomous cars to date and straight go to level 6… where the car imitates a real BMW-Driver… It’ll accelerate with chirping wheels at stop lights, cut other people of and do dangerous overtakes on country roads
Tesla posted this video over a year ago:
It’s not impressive anymore to just have a car that can drive itself. It’s the edge cases that are the problem.
What I mean is that most of Tesla’s competitors are using Lidar. They are measuring the distance of objects + they have a 3D map of the road. With this approach you can get pretty quick results, but only on the road that has been mapped. Lidar also is expensive and makes the car look ugly.
Tesla decided to base their self driving on cameras, which is mimicking humans. Humans are able to drive pretty safely when they’re concentrated, and they just have two eyes. But they also have a trained brain and this is the tricky part. But once you solve it, you can drive on any road and all over the World.
So if we solve general AI, tesla’s approach works? (personally my take on that is that machines should use their advantages like lidar if they want to compete).
Ya that Renault, wasn’t this Video though.
Well I guess we have to see what the future brings.
And Bojack, absolutely, Edge cases are the most difficult. An dev engineer told me once, that of the most difficult things where leaves falling from trees, would make the car stop and freeze.
Cheers
I don’t think we need to go that far. You have these neural networks that are trained to play chess, or to recognize images, or to improve quality of videos. You put all these things together, you will eventually get an AI that is more reliable than a human. And I think you don’t even need to give control to the AI to test it. You just can compare the real world driver with what the AI would do given the input, and simulate if this would lead to an accident. Of course, you will need AI to not just get 1% better than humans, but probably 10x better, due to the public outcry after AI causes a fatal accident. Only then will Tesla be confident to release it, I guess.
