commission free doesn’t save that much money.
Let’s say you buy SSAC which has TER 0.20% and is commission free versus a cheaper TER product like SPDR ACWI (TER 0,12%) but not commission free
You are better off buying a lower TER product by paying commission (0.08% or min 3 CHF) because TER will be charged every year. Commission is just one time fee
If you want to trade or store VT at Saxo, you might need to fill a form first waving certain liabilities for bank. Last year they only allowed US ETFs after signing a waiver
I have opened a Saxo account to check out their platform. Transferring money from Wise was no problem at all. But now when I tried to withdraw, the money is stuck in limbo between Wise and Saxo, because their withdrawal process did not allow me to enter a reference/comment, which is needed by Wise to associate the transfer to my account. Saxo just automatically sent it to the account where the money came from originally (which is some shared Wise clearing account i guess).
I withdrew from Saxo on April 29. When the money didn’t arrive at Wise, I contacted Wise support on Sunday May 4. On Monday May 5 Wise sent an email saying that they could not associate the transfer with my account because of the missing membership number, and that they have refunded the transfer to the bank it came from. Today I contacted Saxo support to ask why the refund has not appeared back in my Saxo account yet. I got disconnected twice from the chat, once when I tried to open another Saxo-browser tab to look up transfer details that the support agent asked me about - and the 2nd time when i tried to open the developer tab to copy paste the Sax ticket number (selection is disabled in that support chat). Then I got reconnected to a different agent that could not see my previous chat, and I had to type everything again.
Saxo has a very nice transfers-dialog showing detailed transfer info, but unfortunately it has a scrollbar and the content is neither printable nor copy/pastable, so i had to make screenshots to send it to Wise.
Anyway, I’m sure the money will arrive back in my Saxo account eventually. But having your money stuck in the interwebs for weeks is not a great experience. And I wonder how to get the money to Wise at all. Hopefully this saves someone some headaches.
This is a security feature and one of the reasons why I switched to Saxo. Withdrawals can only be made to accounts from which deposits have been made. In addition, the account must be in your name, which is not the case with Wise. Good to hear that this security feature works.
For comparison: If someone hacks a Swissquote account and sells all ETFs, they can then send the money to any IBAN because Swissquote can also be used for normal payments.
Since April 1st 2017, no third-party payments will be executed. Therefore, please make sure all your payments are made to / from your personal account.
Absolutely, and this experience confirms it again. It’s only a small test amount, but I’m out of the market since April 29. Support today said they are still trying to find the money and will get back to me in 2-3 days.
I do agree that this could be a security feature. But executed like this it feels more like the opposite. Note that I orginally funded my Saxo account from my Wise account. During the withdrawal-process, Saxo automatically suggested that Wise destination in a dropdown or similar (same as IB/Schwab). So I thought: “Nice, they have my Wise account connected like these other brokers, easy-peasy”, and I clicked continue. Saxo then didn’t ask any further questions and just initiated a withdrawal to the bank account where the money originally came from (which of course is a problem in case of non-personal Wise accounts).
My expectation of a solid broker is that they anticipate the Wise-scenario, and either handle it correctly (e.g. allowing me to enter my Wise membership number), or prevent the transfer to Wise (or any account that is not in my name).
There is a dropdown in which all IBAN numbers are listed from which you have deposited. Sure, they could now try to block Wise there. But in the end it’s a never-ending story, because there are probably dozens of such services like Wise. And then there’s Revolut, where some have their own IBAN and some don’t depending on the country (possibly also the case with Wise?).
What I agree with you:
According to your description, it takes too long to solve the problem. That’s not good.
Saxo could put an info under the dropdown that the account should be in your own name.
Even though I understand your sentiment, I find it a bit bizarre.
You are trying to fund your Wise wallet using your brokerage proceeds and when the transaction didn’t go through easily, you want Saxo to figure out a way to stop this transaction at the time of initiation.
Its common knowledge that Wise & Revolut are just wallets. They are not bank accounts under your name.
The part we should think about is if Saxo should stop receiving funds from Wise wallets. That could be a valid question.
What i find bizarre is trying to find the problem with the customer.
A customer-friendly mindset is one that anticipates all the possible ways customers would want to transfer money and facilitate that as much as possible. New banking services like Wise and Revolut are here to stay, and brokers like IB demonstrate that it is perfectly possible to support these new banking services.
I understand that I brought all of this onto myself, by not using traditional banking. My intent of posting this experience was to warn others of the pitfalls of using Wise, and give Saxo input for improvement.
Yes, Wise is a special beast of a multi-currency account. As far as I understand (and like @markus654 noted), Wise/Revolut use shared (“clearing”?) account for all customers. The pro-side of this is that I get a “real” US account and ACH routing number, that can be connected to these US brokers. I also get a real CH IBAN where I can transfer from a traditional Swiss bank without transfer fees.
My preferred workflow currently is CH bank → Wise → broker.
One magic thing that Wise provides is that usually when you make a transfer from the SWIFT world to the US world, there is a USD 25 fee. But when you convert your money in your Wise account from CHF to USD, suddenly the money is available in the US banking system with their very cheap or even free transfers.
(I want to note that nice brokers like IB also provide a CH IBAN so that you can transfer without fees, but in the end this is not different from what Wise does, because IB then also has to match your transfer to your internal account via some customer number).
(actually there is a slight difference: IB even allows you then to do the FX-conversion without fees, while Wise takes ~0.25%)
(also I believe Wise has upper limits for transfer amounts, which could be a real pain in the future)
As someone who works in IT, I find the desire to build a custom implementation for each specialized solution instead of simply supporting a standard process bizarre. I mean: The next one wants an Kraken integration. Ah, and PayPal. We shouldn’t forget BigPay either…
I want to note that nice brokers like IB also provide a CH IBAN
Same with Saxo? I transfer from a CH-IBAN@Raiffeisen to a CH-IBAN@Saxo.
But I transfer CHF. Maybe that’s where my lack of understanding…
But of course, as a Wise user (I don’t), a Wise integration would be good.
@markus654 I am also in IT and I also have no desire to integrate a dozen payment providers. But that’s what you have to do when you want to sell stuff to as many people as possible.
You remind me of my boss. Is your name Martin by chance?
At my work we have constantly implemented features for 1% of the users (sometimes for a single customer). And for ~3 years we have been wondering why we no longer have time for the features that appeal to 99% of users, because we are only busy maintaining the many features.
I just wanted to say that it is a feature that payouts can only be sent to IBANs that are under your name. But yes, I understand your point - I will now stay out of this discussion
It’s not . I agree with everything you said - we have the same issues. It’s annoying to be the 1% though, and being told that I the customer am the problem
They are even fully integrated in both directions. Deposits from and withdrawals to Wise can be triggered from IBKR. I’m not a 100% sure it works with CHF, though.
By reading and partipating to this forum, you confirm you have read and agree with the disclaimer presented on http://www.mustachianpost.com/
En lisant et participant à ce forum, tu confirmes avoir lu et être d'accord avec l'avis de dégagement de responsabilité présenté sur http://www.mustachianpost.com/fr/
Durch das Lesen und die Teilnahme an diesem Forum bestätigst du, dass du den auf http://www.mustachianpost.com/de/ dargestellten Haftungsausschluss gelesen hast und damit einverstanden bist.
