PostFinance option

SQ has:

Depotgebühren für Privatkunden: 0.025% pro Quartal (+ MWSt). Mindestens CHF 15, maximal CHF 50 pro Quartal.

So with just 200’000 CHF invested, you pay them the full 200 CHF for custody fee.

PF costs 90 CHF, which can be used for trades. So if you just make 1 big trade per year, PF is much cheaper.

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it depends:

fixed fee used as a trading credit

Minimum!

I was just recently calculating what would be a cheapest way to hold 100k+ CHF worth ETFs in a swiss broker. The answer is (currently) Postfinance or CornerTrader, but in the latter case one should make 1 trade per quartal.

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Good point for PF: fixed annual custody fee.

Bad point: The brokerage fees are expensive even for very large orders. For a 99k CHF order it is still 0.18%. With your 90 CHF trading credit + 5 CHF extra you can buy for max 30k CHF per year, if you do it in one order.

Also transferring securities out of PF is 100 CHF + VAT per security.

Not true, I think.

CHF 30,001 - 50,000: CHF 130 per trade
CHF 50,001 - 100,000: CHF 180 per trade

So 130 / 50’000 is 0.26%, 180 / 100’000 is 0.18%. That’s as low as it gets. Of course, the stamp duty of 0.15% comes on top. I purchased 100’000 of VWRL last week and total fees were around 330 CHF.

I don’t quite understand why trading is that expensive with Swiss brokers.

This year I switched all my ETFs to the products from Avantis. With Postfinance or Swissquote, that would have cost more than 1’000 chf.

With Interactive Brokers I payed around 35 chf in commission and probably got a better execution of the trades as well.

Then there are also the currency conversation cost that are pretty high.

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Next time PF calls me I might ask them how a transfer of positions inbound works. 330chf seems a lot. The most expensive outbound transfer from IB is 0.003 per share (not position!) or 100usd for position.

Thanks all.

I simulated 100k portfolio, 5% growth. 6 EU ETF trades per year, 4K for each trade. For the next 20 years.

SQ: around 382 chf at 100k capital, growing to 482chf in 20 years when capital gets to 600k
PF: 498 chf at 100-600k capital (no custody just 6 trades * 45 chf/trade + 48 chf transaction fee / trade)

We are looking at similar numbers. Since she does not have a PF account and to open e trading you need one, would be easier to use Swiss quote. Still a lot of money for those Swiss brokers! Hope they will realize one day!

I feel like going for Swiss quote. Questions

  1. I don’t have direct experience with SQ. For less finance savvy people, would it be easy to use in case of problems?
  2. assuming in few years some other brokers pop up that is trustable and cheaper, would I be better off at SQ or PF if my wife were to switch?

Thx

Inbound transfer of positions is free at PF, that’s what they told me.

Yes, but did they tell you what kind of transfer it is? Otherwise I have no idea what to look on IB’s side.

Outbound of funds? How much would it cost for PF/SQ?

Yep. I took numbers from different columns.

Costs to transfer out securities (per position):
PF: 100 CHF + VAT
SQ: 50 CHF (+ VAT I suppose)

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A new broker might have a promotion to cover security transfer fees from other brokers, like TradeDirect does now.

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Personally, I haven’t been concerned about it.

But I don’t have anyone that would depend on my assets in the event of my early demise. I did make sure to leave my relatives the information regarding my bank/investment accounts. Especially since it’s not as if Interactive Brokers would send anything by postal mail.

They’d surely have to hire a professional to sort things out, due to their financial illiteracy and the language barrier. But then again, no need to hurry.

Maybe it needs a separate post, as someone mentioned earlier estate planning is an important topic.

Better be prepared. Death does not always advice you in advance.

Agreed. I’m updating my testament now. When I’m done, I’ll make a small thread once I’ve confirmed nothing exists already.

Swiss law is super clear for inheritors but like @San_Francisco said it may come down simply to instructions provided to the exécuter and a list of what and where everything is.

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You are totally correct - exactly in the direction you replied regarding IB and PF and what would be harder to “manage” on death of one or the other.

Dependency is indeed the key question…reminds me of someone trying to sell me life insurance for my kids. I told him “you don’t insure liabilities” and he looked at me like I was a stone cold killer. :skull:

I obviously love my kids but insurance should be objective based on risk/liabilities and not about sentiments…exactly why I covered myself and not my wife since the bank won’t give me a hard time should she pass, but alone she would have to amortise more to clear the bank requirements rule for her salary alone.

Note: I only have a small insurance policy on risk pure since it’s just to cover that specific need over the next 5years…no need for insurance once FIRE account is big enough for retirement and/or estate planning.

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Only part I partially disagree with.

Fully correct for you, if you have no dépendants like you mention and since succession laws are clear.

However, if we do have dependants, this is a must not to neglect. Avoids both (a) infighting over inheritances (think potential future half sisters and brothers for your kids, that I personally wouldn’t want to support) and (b) to try to ensure all our work for FIRE benefits rather than hinders life for the family in the long run. :blush:

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Absolutely, I was just referring to my personal situation.

I did make a will to bequest the relatives I wanted to (as there are others that potentially would benefit otherwise), but that’s about. They‘ll probably be overwhelmed to close my IBKR account by themselves, given that they’ve never had any financial services client relationship in English or (virtually) anything outside of their country of residence. Let alone the U.S. and its inheritances covering U.S. assets (including securities) held by foreigners.

I imagine it could take some time - if they were dependent on me and there‘d be any liability (think mortgage, business liabilities), even liquidity could become a concern - even if given they‘ll be inheriting from me eventually.

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