Sorry, that was a shot off the hip. I agree that governments can’t finance themselves off debt alone without econimic activity to back it up. My point was that taxation (like money itself as I see it) is primarily a stimulus designed to trigger actions. Anyway, I’ll save the Rich Dad discussion for another thread so as not to hijack the OPs forum.
That’s Modern Monetary Theory in a nutshell. https://youtu.be/E5JTn7GS4oA is a fun video to watch, or you can read https://www.amazon.com/Deficit-Myth-Monetary-Peoples-Economy/dp/1541736184
Pardon me for not joining the applauses of others, i’m just a lowly software engineer at a high stress finance job, burned out and cynical from it late;y
But I don’t really think your numbers are good and a cause for celebration. In the same boat - came to CH at 23 with zero savings, by 30 I already had crossed 1.3M mark. It had a well paying job at a megacorp but not much more than 2x better paying than next random SWE job in Zurich.
And now at a buy side firm, 160k is probably what I’d clear just this year alone after taxes and expenses…
Did I mention anywhere that I’m celebrating? I just posted my story…
Nice, good for you.
Congrats for landing a job with 200k at 23 years old. That’s exceptionally high, I don’t think you can compare this with my story, I made 80k before taxes at my first job…
No it wasn’t 200k - my starting salary 120k (grew to only 160k by the time I left after 30’s), plus a bit of bonus and vest all in all less than 160k back then - like, i said it was at most about double what I could get at a random job elsewhere in Zurich. So doesn’t explain why I was able to end up with 10x more rather than just 2x. Total yearly TC at that megacorp was ~270k at highest point (again, 1/2 of that is totally reasonably at companies you don’t have to be so lucky to get hired at) and it shrank in later years which is why I left for finance
Don‘t troll around please. First of all, its not easy to get beyond 150k total comp. secondly, every additional 10k of comp translates to additional 6k of savings; but only after you cleared a certain income mark. 200k will give you probably 3 to 4 X of the savings you make with 100k.
Looklike you had luck inyour career; please don‘t confuse this with majority and don‘t become arrogant.
That’s still an execeptionally high income for a 23yo, you were really lucky. Your logic is flawed, for an accurate comparison we’d need to compare income after tax and expenses and also take compounding interest into account.
This is something we should all be wary of. Past some level of income, enduring health costs for more money isn’t always worth it.
Spoken as an environmental engineer probably close to burnout for way less money than you do.
Rule uf thumb for me is that you should be able to save about 60% of your post 40k income. You will probably need about 40k just to survive. Initially, 40% of additional income goes into a long term sustainable lifestile (aka no canfood) and Taxes. As your income goes higher; taxes will make out more and you can invest less into lifestyle creep (if you want).
Strangely; 60% of on top of 40k works relatively well. But you need to acknowledge that this implies quite some savings focus and only works if you restrain yourself and keep yourself in good (physical / emotional) health.
My Personal targets are currently roughly 60% after 60k; I am too old to live with 60% afer with 40k lol
The factor of 2x of average income I had was luck I agree. But adjusting for that, what OPs figures show he managed to save merely 1/5th of what I would have without that luck factor.
Don’t worry, looking to quit it for good as soon I hit my Nth million. Just a few more quarters…
The statement was fairly different, afaik MMT depends heavily on spending+taxation (it’s taxation that makes money be money).
An ongoing tax obligation, in concert with private confidence and acceptance of the currency, underpins the value of the currency.
(sorry for the OT/tangent)
Your math doesn’t make any sense, I saved on average 20k per year (25% of my total compensation), and you say you saved 5 times more so 125% of your income???
This here is not a competition. We are a self help group. The purpose is not self help in the process of accumulating as much wealth as possible but to prepare ourselves so that we are ready to enjoy wealth as we accumulate it whilst preparing ourselves for it. Wealth doesnt serve any purpose at all when not ready.
Comparing yourself with others is no path to self fulfilment and satisfaction; just as you look down - you could as well look up (or beeing looked down by someone else). Trust me, there is always someone that could look down on you. Such mindset will lead to a situation where we take the marathon of building up wealth and a happy, financially independent life as a sprint; and by doing so we get burned out. Or even worse; we end up on a journey where we will never be ready as there was always someone with more - the hurdle for our goal is always two steps ahead of us.
Not sure if your motivation was of competitive and comparative nature (aka if you define your self value in relation to others). If it was not the case and you dont fight with your inner jealousy and tendency to looking up and down; but your Motivation was simply to make you feel better by making others feel worse. Trust me; that aint work in this community. This is a fairly resilient crowd.
My personal Key take Away from this group is that the most relevant impediment to financial independence was to achieve genuine independence from financial or ego comparison (income, savings rates, net worth, returns, living cost). These figures are good to learn our lessons and how to navigate our way but nor for comparison as such. The key is that we will have the financial means available by the time when we are emotionally mature and resilient enough to live and enjoy financial independence. Its the maturity that defines the time when we are ready but not the level of wealth accumulated (clearly within reason; this mainly applies as you built up a certain wealth already).
Or in plain language: You cant achieve financial independence by reaching a certain „Number“. It can however be achieved by training a certain mindset; and whilst we do so and practicing such mindset we as a side effect automatically build up the wealth required to enjoy financial independence.
No, it’s you who’s not making any sense. Are you keeping your hard earned cash in a mattress or something? S&P500 4x’ed in the last decade.
Oh believe me I do and don’t need your pity. I’m a loser alright compared to these people around my age
A lot to learn you need in Life, young jedi. Inside you the path to glory is, in others not.
Sounds great. You don’t pursue FIRE, so you’re in a very good financial situation considering your personal goals and you seem to enjoy life.
Doesn’t seem to make you happy. And to make things worse there are people who have more than you, even on this forum. So nothing to celebrate following your own logic.
I don’t get why some people here are so negative. OP obviously didn’t brag and just told his story. And financially he’s still way ahead of most other people in his age.
I just saw your last post.
Yeah that’s the right mindset for a healthy and happy life! Good luck…
Dont worry, your savings are good (fairly close to the 40k plus 60%). As your salary increases will you be able to save more. It matters to find a sustainable lifestyle. A super frugal lifestyle can lead to major issues further down the road. I would not focus on saving more but on earning more; and on every additional franc of salary increase; try to save 60 cent.
As well from an investment point of view. You shouldnt start to invest your first franc but you forst build up a certain savety cushion. Keep your emergency fund and going forward find a ratio of what from your savings goes into investment and what into cash. You are well on track; salary increases and higher savinga amounts (that imply higher investment percentages) will make you have an exciting investment journey and a good outcome.
Yeah, but it pays so well that it’s hard to pull the trigger to self employment / own company, which is necessary to become truly rich. You can’t become one of those guys I linked to selling your time for money, that’s the truth
A multi million portfolio is plenty to celebrate in europe, that’s generational wealth - enough for me and my kids for life sans a major screw up. But it’s not exactly rich, I’m just “comfortably off”…
And will becoming truly rich trigger fulfilment and/or happiness? Or would truly rich people’s problems make that difficult even then?
This. Success and failure are best defined in relation to ourselves, not what others have achieved.
I think everybody can decide for himself what’s worth celebrating. A multi million portfolio can be gone quickly depending on your lifestyle. I think most people especially here in Switzerland know a people with this kind of networth.
OP never stated he’s rich, nobody here did.
Congratulations for your achievements, but if you don’t grant anybody with less than you have the right to celebrate, that’s just arrogant and out of touch with reality.
With this mindset there’s a good chance OP will be happier than you even if you become the richest person on this planet.