Even tho you shouldn’t need that can you also send them a proof that you’re covered anyway in your new country of residence?
I could send them a copy of my new policy in my new country of residence (although doing so could be interpreted that I accept their ‘ruling’, and given my circumstances I dont believe I should have to). And even if I do send it to them that will not be enough since they claim that I still have to apply for exemption from the Swiss system, which comes with the implication that they could always say no.
Have you been talking in legal language or descriptive language so far?
Example of the first:
“This situation X is regulated in paragraph Y, therefore Z.”
Examples of the second:
“The situation is X and so Y, therefore Z.”
“We need you to fill out this formula.”
If they second fails, the first will lead to results.
Know the legal framework, provide the legal framework, insist they provide the legal framework, and check what they claim, too.
ETA: also: if you are right, you should totally report them.
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Thanks. I have been using descriptive language since my German is very basic. I have since replied, stating that (a) Section 1 of the KVG letter refers to withdrawal of the BVG portion that requires an application for exemption, (b) I am not withdrawing the BVG portion, just the non mandatory part, and (c) asking them to set out the reasons why they continue to believe I need to apply for exemption.
This entire experience feels like harassment and so I’m wondering whether to contact the ombudsman and/or seek some legal advice?
Can’t you just instruct the bank to cancel the LSV ?
hi, i had other problems with health insurance and searching on the internet i found this office that helped me, before going legal (thanks to them i didn’t need it) they speak all 3 languages and their work is free, they are lawyers. try to ask for help. good luck
Ombudsstelle
Krankenversicherung
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The previous message looks and feels like 100% spam, but … the same address is listed here:
I don’t know why would someone run a bot posting links to a website of a government-ish service…
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Thanks
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So I received a letter from the KVG, where they are explicit in terms of Swiss health insurance requirements when leaving the country:
‘‘As soon as you have received your Swiss pension, you are subject to compulsory insurance in
Switzerland. An early withdrawal/capital withdrawal or a payment from the 2nd pillar also leads to compulsory insurance. As soon as you draw your pension, you have three months to apply for exemption from compulsory insurance. If you do not submit this application within three months, it will be rejected and you will be obliged to take out insurance in Switzerland.’’
I have italicised part of their statement which makes it clear that any early withdrawal is treated in the same way as receiving the BVG portion. I have to say I am quite surprised since this is not what I had previously understood.
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Who is KVG?
Anyhow, proof still missing.
They are referred to on this government website as the “the Common Institution under the KVG in Olten is the health insurance liaison body for recipients of a Swiss pension resident in an EU/EFTA/UK and insured in Switzerland”
It’s kinda surprising the guide from the KVG is a lot more nuanced:
(page 69)
4.3.3 Titulaires de pension et leurs membres de famille
Les titulaires de pension sont couverts par une assurance maladie dans l’Etat dont ils perçoivent une pension (art. 24 al. 2 chif. a) R 883/2004, « La personne qui perçoit une pension […] »). C’est donc la perception effective d’une pension qui est l’élément déterminante pour le déclenchement de l’obligation de s’assurer. Il ne suffit pas que la personne ait seulement le droit à une pension. Par conséquent les personnes qui ajournent leur rente AVS, sont soumis à l’obligation de s’assurer à la date ultérieure où ils perçoivent leur rente.
Les rentiers sont soumis à l’assurance obligatoire en Suisse s’ils perçoivent l’une des rentes suivantes :
• Assurance vieillesse et survivants (AVS)
• Assurance invalidité (AI)
• Assurance militaire (AM)
• Assurance accidents (AA)
• Prévoyance professionnelle (PP). Le critère déterminant est la perception d’une prestation selon la LPP (partie obligatoire). Le versement d’un capital par l’institution de prévoyance déclenche également l’obligation de s’assurer si l’âge de la retraite prévu par le règlement est atteint, en règle générale, au plus tôt dès l’âge de 58 ans (cf. art. 1i al. 1 OPP2). Les personnes qui ne bénéficient que de la partie surobligatoire de la prévoyance professionnelle ne sont pas concernées par cette disposition et sont soumises à l’obligation d’assurance de l’État de résidence (cf. 3.10 Personnes sans activité lucrative).
It explicitly says the non-obligatory part doesn’t trigger the swiss health insurance requirement. (and even the mandatory it’s only if you could trigger the retirement condition, so be above 58yo)
edit: maybe you need to be more precise when asking the KVG (e.g. that this is only the over-obligatory part, etc.)
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Thanks a lot for looking this up. This is really odd because when I wrote to them I (thought) I was explicit. In my email to them I stated:
My age (and that I am not yet of pensionable age)
The EU country I will move to and the fact that I will take out health insurance there
That I will make an early pillar 2 withdrawal when I leave Switzerland.
That the early pillar 2 withdrawal withdrawal is not BVG/UVG
That I will not withdraw any benefits from the OASI, DI, UVG, or BVG until I reach retirement age
I’m not sure how much clearer I could have made this to them?
I will go back to them, quoting their guidance that you kindly found & request an explanation as to why they feel that making an non-mandatory pillar 2 withdrawal places an obligation to apply for exemption.
so pensioners in the UK receiving swiss pensions are still paying swiss health insurance? even though basic healthcare in UK is free?
Someone always pays for it (I suppose UK folks paid for it with taxes/social contributions while they were working, and maybe also part of their pension goes to fund it when they’re retired?)
And for UK it’s even more complex since the bilateral only applies to Swiss or UK nationals, no idea what happens if you’re e.g. German with a Swiss pension in UK.
edit: that said if you’re not settled, you’d get your health surcharge reimbursed: If your healthcare is paid for by an EU country, Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein or Switzerland, you may be eligible for a full or partial reimbursement of your immigration health surcharge.
So I wrote again to the KVG, explaining everything again (non-obligatory pillar 2 withdrawal, that I’m not at retirement age etc.)
Despite this they again insist on an application for exemption so that they can decide:
“We need a complete application so that we can check your application.
with the required documents 2 pillar benefit, deregistration in Switzerland.
If the 2nd pillar is not a mandatory component, we will inform you accordingly”
So I guess that is the only way for me to get this matter closed is to do what they want and apply for exemption even though I have explained repeatedly that I don’t yet meet the criteria to have to apply for exemption(!)
I’m also assuming that once I get the exemption I will not have to apply again when I actually meet the criteria - although given the responses received so far it would not surprise me if they demand another application in a few years time.
Seems weird, probably would have been simpler to not mention withdrawal (and only withdraw) after health insurance cancellation is validated.
Yes, in hindsight I would not have informed them about the withdrawal until later.
Is it possible you’re still not 100% sure about the legal situation?
Because if you KNEW, 100% certain, that from a date onwards you’d not have to have Swiss insurance and that what they want you to do is incorrect… What stops you from just not having it?
Inform your insurance company that from date X on you’re revoking their right to withdraw from your bank account, make sure with your bank that they cannot. Ignore KVG or tell them the case got worked out. Done with it.
If you’re right and it’s a clear cut legal case, what are they going to do? Sue you? 
So my question is: are you sure?
Even if you’re right isn’t it quite a bit of effort to deal with it?
I assume you’ll end up in the debt register (and they might also forward it to a debt collector), that can be fairly annoying if you ever plan on moving back to Switzerland.
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