New immigration law and FI/RE

Stumbled today on this interesting piece of news for y’all wannabe early retirees:

https://ma.zh.ch/internet/sicherheitsdirektion/migrationsamt/de/aktuell/mitteilungen/information_aig.html

Newest swiss invention: Rückstufung (Art. 63 Abs. 2 AIG)

The message seems to be this: keep working or get swiss passport or

(talking about ‘Teilnahme am Wirtschaftsleben’ bit here)

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It only matters for non-EU nationals, right?

https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classified-compilation/19994648/index.html#app1ahref6 (only read the french version, but my understanding is that you don’t need to work to have a right to stay)

(I think you need to show that you have more than what qualifies people for social help)

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Thanks for this news. Indeed not a good one. Why the f*** do they do this? What is their problem?

Die Teilnahme am Wirtschaftsleben oder am Erwerb von Bildung

What is so bad about an early retiree? They buy stuff, pay their rent… Maybe the problem is, that by having a low income their tax is low, so they benefit more from the system than they contribute? (like roads, police, military etc).

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Just open a GmbH and employ yourself :wink:

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… get filthy rich and nobody will kick you out. Last time I checked Michael Schumacher still wasn’t working.

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Maybe apply for Swiss passport is cheaper ? :wink:

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Much ado about nothing… this is aimed at people who get their permanent residence, and then start living off Sozialhilfe or are otherwise problematic*. A retiree/firee who pays all their bills won’t be affected.

But also, no reason not to get a passport and start contributing politically either if you really want to stay.

(*)There are a few famous cases, I believe there was an interview with a finance or AHV director from Zug explaining how someone from Germany was essentially abusing the system by stopping work as soon as they got their C-permit, thereafter living from Sozialhilfe. (And if this were to become a widespread pattern, it would lead to financial issues for cities seeing as the system isn’t designed for that.)

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Thanks, of course it makes sense to “degrade” people who abuse the system. I just hope nobody comes with an idea to degrade FIREd people.

Sure, I would gladly get the Swiss citizenship, not sure if the future of Poland looks bright enough. But isn’t it a bit complicated? It takes a few years between you get a C permit and you’re eligible for Swiss citizenship, or? I wouldn’t like to be degraded in that time.

10 years residence + holding a C permit, there’s no wait time in between per-se.

EU citizens have extra protections anyway though, which probably makes most of these changes of no relevance for you.

Swiss Passport is really expensive.

Apart from all administrative costs,
In my case I would have to pay Wehrersatzabgabe which would easily be 10000+chf until I am 37.

No thanks

Your idea of having a GbmH ain’t really cheaper. In order to make it work you would need to pay yourself a salary, thus incurring income taxes and social contributions yes? If I understood you correctly, you’re suggesting to hold your ETF portfolio though this GmbH? Seems really complex.

Yeah, the military thing is not nice. But age 37 is ok for me. I do not expect to retire before that age. So what administrative costs are we talking about? How much? 5k, 10k? If it’s under 10k then I can live with that, it’s a one time cost and then nobody will ever kick you out, whatever happens.

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So you say you’re unwilling to contribute, but want the benefits?

(You can still do Zivilschutz to save yourself the 3% tax JFYI.)

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My GmbH idea was a joke :wink:

Of course it is too much administrative work to do that. However it can be beneficial under some circumstances, for example if you are taxed on capital gains.

I think it’s legitimate to avoid it. Otherwise they would need to tax everyone until the retirement age to close that loophole.
Remember that most people also had military service in their home country so they would pay twice.

What do you mean by “unwilling to contribute”? Are you refering to military service? I just don’t think I would be good for any military training. Especially that I would be eligible for citizenship at the age of 40. I don’t see myself playing soldier at that age…

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After 40 you are done with military service, do you plan to become FI before that ? If not, you can apply for citizenship and it should cost you less than your Gmbh idea. For my whole family of 4 I paid +/- 1.5 k (don’t know if there are differences according to your origin country, EU thing etc). Consider also that the process lasts 1.5 to 2 years, so you can apply earlier than 40…:wink:

Moreover, some countries (DE, FR, USA, Colombia, Argentina, Austria and Italy) have an agreement with CH so if you’ve already done military service there you don’t have to pay.

For me the document mentioned in the first message is nothing surprising. Switzerland has a long tradition of an open country built by people who are motivated to bring this country forward. The policy of granting immigration as long as you have a job led to a very stable country and a prosperous economy even with (or thank to) one of the highest percentage of foreigners among the European countries. There are several industrial sectors (Bank, watchmaking, food, chemistry) that have been built by people who emigrated in Switzerland.
Today we bump in people who think that social benefits are a solution and integration through the language, the equality between men and women and the respect of political institutions is a burden. The information from ZH is targeted to this kind of people.

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This is the Abu Ramadan law… https://www.bernerzeitung.ch/region/kanton-bern/gegen-abu-ramadan-ermittelt-jetzt-die-staatsanwaltschaft/story/10850835

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600k over 13 years. How can such thing be possible…

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This is possible because I pay too much tax and the money is badly used.

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