My 2 cents + presentation

Hi all
after years of silent reading, this post triggered me to create an account to reply :smiley:

I am one of those 14000 people with sitting cash in the postfinance. In my case, a little over 200k CHF after 6 years living and working in Switzerland (age 30)
I see that some are a bit shocked that there are people pilling money without doing anything with it. Keep in mind that for some people investing is presented as a super dangerous risky crazy thing to do throughout their life / environment. I am actually surprised that there are “only” 14000 people with that amount sitting and not more. In my opinion we shouldn’t forget that this (great) forum is a bit of a bubble of investors and not a representation of society. If you are here you are already thinking about doing something with the money. I remember when a work colleague explained me about the 3rd pillar, I thought that it was some dangerous wall street stuff…

In my case, this year I decided to start investing only to realize that it is not as hard as it may seem when you read online and that learning by doing is much better than learning by reading. I was very afraid of Interactive Brokers…I actually found it quite user friendly when I starting using it (Webtrader) I should have started earlier (before I only had my 3rd pillar) but I started when I started and now I invest 3k CHF per month (VT through IB)
But what about those 5,5 years without investing? I can’t go back in time… therefore my 200k in the bank. I don’t want to start investing 10k a month to compensate, but I will slowly keep increasing the monthly contribution I make (started with 2k, now I put 3k, will probably move to 4k soon…)

Just wanted to present myself and hopefully give the point of view of someone who wasn’t a natural investor but (very slowly) became one :slight_smile:


Welcome to the fold! It’s never too late to start. All things considered you are in a very stable position to start investing. Think about how much cash you really need and when you might need it. That will help you to decide your personal asset allocation.

After you have invested for a couple of months or you’ll notice that it’s not as mysterious or dangerous some people might think or say. The easiest (and a relatively safe) thing you could do is to immediately max out your 3a account for this year. Just make sure the 3a provider is a reasonable one.

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Why not ? As @LeStache suggested, first define a confortable asset allocation and then a timeline (DCA ?) to reach it

I don’t feel confident enough to start investing as heavily as 10k a month, but every 3 months I am increasing my monthly investment by 1000 (started with 2k, now 3k, thinking about 4k monthly)
I also feel (from looking at the trends) that this last year was a bit more chaotic than usual (with the huge drop in March and then the rise until maximum historical levels) so this turbulence makes me want to avoid huge lump investments right now…
I am also observing how I psychologically react. Since I started it has only gone positive, but how will it be when I experience a whole year of red numbers?

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Whatever gets you invested is good.

Hovewer, I want to point out that the faster you invest, the better the result will be in the majority of cases.

I always find it good to read of Bob, the worst market timer in history.

Only 3k per month is really, really slow, especially if you also save some money.

I would really recommend that you think about investing 10’000 or 20’000 per month. I assume that you don’t need the money in the near future. So it doesn’t really affect you, if there is a drop in the near future.

I would guess that you would be better of if you invest everything now and there is a huge 50% drop than with the rate of 3k per month.

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Just do what you are comfortable with. It might be that you’ll look back and wish you’d have started more aggressively as soon as possible (as it happened to me), but the most important thing is that you build your confidence at a pace you can sustain.


And the quote would be:

The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.


I am also in the same boat as you. However, for some random reason, PF has decided to not charge me negative interest rate for now. Luckily I started investing 2.5 years ago otherwise I would have lot more than 200K right now. I do regret not being bolder during the crash, but I take heart in the fact that I still invested a decent chunk unlike some seasoned investors who cashed out.

I think it only applies to people that have no other services with them (3A, E-Trading and maybe even credit card would save you from negative interest)

Looks correct because I have my 3a with them and didn’t receive any notification. Next payment I will open a new one with VIAC but will probably keep this one in PF. Must be looked in detail…

You might be entitled to a Plus account as well (usually costs 7.50.- I think), which gives you free withdrawing at any atm worldwide (that does not charge itself).
I had my 3A there as well, but it’s too much cost if invested in shares.

Surely you do realise that cash is also a form of investment, don’t you?

If liquidity is so important to you, why not simply convert some of your hard earned cash into other currencies?

Liquidity is not specially important to me. I of course want to have cash in the bank to cover even a couple of years period, but certainly not as much as now. This super liquidity is just the result of 5 years without investing in anything.

Welcome @agenda!

I think it’s because many people look at short term fluctuations, which are very scary. Over a period of 40 years (the time we work hard and save what we can), it’s the opposite though.

The most risky thing that can be done in money for use in 40 years is to keep it in cash. It will have all been eaten away by inflation by the time of retirement. For example, with 2% of inflation per year, 55% of the savings will be wiped out. Interests help, but currently they are too low to catch up with inflation.

On the other hand, it has never been observed in modern history that a broadly diversified stock index lost value over 40 years. Of course we can’t know the future, but at least personally I would be really really scared, especially in this period of negative interests and uncertainty, of having all my retirement savings in cash. And it means I am scared about my pillar 2. :slight_smile:

It’s nice that you got interested in learning about investing!


But that’s not in cash.
Or yours is?

It’s not in cash inside, but seen from outside it behaves like cash with very low interests.

Most of the dividends, interests and capital gains are redistributed to other people, which the 2nd pillar wasn’t supposed to do. That’s why it’s been under political discussion for years now.

It’s something difficult to avoid: a system is built, and a few decades later the conditions have changed so much that it holds only in a distorted way.

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Currently, inflation is also really low or negative. They tend to correlate.

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I thinknit was predicted at 0.6% inflation for the current year, meaning with 100k in the bank it loses a value of 600.- Not insignificant.

CPI inflation. Does not include property prices, which keep going up

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