OK, @Cortana, to motivate you I just ordered one 30 mins ago (my current ICE has engine issues and it’s not worth repairing…) 
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Not yet but might be added.
Are you still thinking?
Don’t forget to tell us if you buy one. If you have the same influence on car prices as on stock prices we can expect a massive discount on the entire Tesla fleet as soon as you’ve signed the contract. Might be a good chance to buy one, too.
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No, we decided to stick with the Polo 
According to the delivery team, mine has just crossed the Panama channel… 
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off-topic: any place in Zurich you advise renting a model 3?
Thanks
Which car should we buy instead? What would be a mustachian car? Would be interesting in creating such a topic…
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I would say a mustachian car is a bike.
Pete Adeney seems to have had his eyes turned toward a Tesla lately, though. I guess once we’ve got more than enough to sustain ourselves, that’s an acceptable toy to play with.
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Had to look up who that is. Lol 
If MMM himself wants to buy a Tesla, then how can you call this purchase unmustachian?
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Well he wants to buy it so save money, so it totally makes sense.
Well, I don’t pretend to be in his head but the way I read it, he still considers it as something fancypanty that he may allow himself to get if he’s doing enough other things warranting it : https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2019/05/08/tesla-procrastination/
Also the way he defines riding a bike as the epitom of mustachianism: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/05/07/what-do-you-mean-you-dont-have-a-bike/
“if I had to strip it [Mustachianism] down as far as possible, down to just one single action, and I wasn’t allowed to talk about anything else, the choice would still be simple: “Ride a Bike”.”
He’s not completely anti-car per se (though he’s vigorously anti SUVs) and the EV part of the Tesla seems to appeal to him (among other things) but he still preaches that everything that can be done with a bike should be done with a bike (and many things that we’d consider can’t be done with a bike are bikable to him, like riding in the cold winter on frozen roads) and up until he went in for Tesla, he was advocating that if you really need a car, then you should get an efficient beater and get yourself some mechanical skills.
The way I read it, Tesla’s are not eminently anti-mustachian but not really part of the lifestyle either. I doubt he’d advocate it for anybody who is not already well in his way to complete financial independence (I’d go so far as to imagine he’d not advise it for anybody who hasn’t reached financial independence yet) though, there again, it’s just my read on him and he may very well think differently.
To get somewhat back on topic (sorry for having drifted away), I think we all have (and should, just for our sanity) some fancypant things that we allow ourselves even though they are not eminently mustachian. A nice car can be one of these (if we can afford it and are extra mustachian on the other aspects of our life) and if there’s one car I’d consider leasing without ever buying, it’s an electrical vehicle, so a Tesla would fit my bill. Cortana’s reasoning makes a lot of sense to me, even though I’d personally never consider putting as much money on a car.
Edit: Got it better in this article from 2016 about a Tesla Model S: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2016/04/15/tesla-road-trip/
“But the real way to win the car game is not to play it.”
“But They’re Still Just Luxury Electric Racing Wheelchairs” (Emphasis his)
“Although only multimillionaires should even consider buying a car this expensive”
I just stumbled upon this: https://www.digitec.ch/en/s1/product/tesla-model-3-standard-range-electric-rent-6-months-360hp-cars-12382041
Obviously quite expensive but interesting nonetheless.
Hi everyone,
I am not seeing the leasing offer mentioned in the beginning of this thread on the Tesla website. I just see this for leasing:
- Leasing
Loyer estiméCHF 468 /mois
Loyer après économies est.CHF 288 /mois
CHF 10’000 acompte, 60 mois, 15’000 kilomètres, Montant de clôture CHF 21’101
Am I missing it or is it gone?
Also it seems model 3 got an upgrade this September, maybe someone wants to comment?
I was reviewing bojack’s Excel table but I did not understand how to interpret it… Maybe someone can help me understand how to run the number for the real cost of leasing the tesla versus buying one?
For now, I haven’t been able to understand when leasing is a good idea… Even with that deal, if you lease for 5 years, you pay 775125=46500 in total by the end of the contract. Since the car new costs 57’030, I understand it should be better to buy if you think you can resell the car for more than 57030-46500=10530 after 5 years. I can’t imagine the car would depreciate that much in just 5 years, what am I missing?
Another topic, is there anything that would give incentives for a landlord to put electric charge stations on their parking lots, or if they let you do it it is just because they are nice?
Thanks,
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Hi @mikasa, it’s seems that operative leasing is not available anymore, indeed…
Related to the M3 updates, you find a lot of information on the web, in the end is also a matter of personal taste… heat pump and electric trunk are for sure a plus, on the other end the aesthetic modifications (chrome removal, modified center console, modified wheels etc) you have to judge by yourself
For the leasing, in my opinion it’s a matter of opportunity cost (leasing interest rate vs. what you can do with that money at the same time). Moreover, you have less amortization (also less monthly payment) due to the final lump sum.
Normally, nothing prevents you to buy the car before or at the end of the leasing period and resell it to a higher value (if you are able to do so) cashing out the difference… this is what I’m planning to do, also because my yearly kms are > than the leasing threshold and I would have to pay a penalty if I give the car back to the leasing company at the end of the leasing period
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Thanks for the reply! Got it about the opportunity cost. I was under the impression the previous leasing offer from Tesla did not allow for buying the car in the end of the contract…
Would you mind sharing in more details which option did you go for? Are you leasing with Tesla or with a different company?
Also what about insurance and other costs? I am trying to get a feel for the total costs of using a Tesla versus other cars… Also if it makes a more sense financially to own a Tesla for a few years and then resell it or if it’s better to keep it forever…
I could explain it to you, but you would need to tell me what you don’t understand. The general idea behind it is the discounted cashflow method. It is not only important how high the cashflows are, but also when they happen. Paying 10k today vs paying it in 10 years is not the same. If you have 10k for 10 years, you can use it (the so called opportunity cost). For example, if you believe that the stock market returns 6% per year, on average, this 10k will produce 600 CHF per year, or 50 per month. So whatever you buy, not just cars, has to be worth at least 50/month, for it to make sense. This value of using a tesla, you will not find it anywhere, its subjective. I just put a value per kilometer driven. In the end, if the dcf is positive, it’s a good buy (increases your utility), negative is bad.
Leasing is generally better than buying instantly, because you get to keep your money for longer and pay very low interest on it.
What you should do is visit a Tesla salon and talk to the guy. I think they have sometimes better offers than what is displayed on the website.
And yes, operative leasing means you drive the car and then you give it back. So it’s like a long time rent.
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Hi @mikasa, yes the operative leasing is as you say, more directed to companies looking for an all inclusive option. Standard leasing is also for private persons.
With the standard leasing you can normally buy the car before or at the end of the leasing period. You have to formally contact the company and agree with them, but normally they are more than happy to do so. They have no interest to take the car back and then manage to sell it. If you want to be 100% sure better to ask in advance, tough
Tesla itself is not directly offering the leasing, they rely to leasing companies (at least in CH), usually Bank Now or Cembra (in my case the latter).
Insurance depends on the canton, better ask a quote to an insurance company or try Comparis, for mine I pay about 1k/year for the full kasko
Own or lease, recurring question (also for ICE cars…). In my opinion it depends on personal use case.
In my family I have both:
- Model S bought 2nd hand, wife car (+ family car during WE), paid cash
- Model 3 bought new, my car, work commute, leasing
My wife’s car is driving less than 100 km trips, the car is attached to the home network 90% of the time, slow charging. Fast charging only for long trips during WE (once every 2-3 months). Consider that older cars are slowed down in charging speed after a certain amount of kms (to preserve the battery), this means longer time to fast charge (our Model S is capped at about 90 kW speed).
On the other end, I do weekly trips of ca 2x 400 km and do mostly fast charging -> I need range and to charge as fast as possible (usually 140-150 kW, might be more with V3 superchargers).
Due to fast charging, my charge speed will be capped in 2-3 years, I guess (I drive ca. 40k/year) -> for me it’s more interesting to lease and change the car in 3 years
Also, take into account that there is a rapid evolution in these electric car at the moment -> it might be worth it to lease and change to a newer one as the technology evolves…
just my 2 cents
Anyway, you find a lot of infos on Tesla forums on the net, maybe it’s a good idea to have a look
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Hi @Bojack, thanks a lot for that explanation! It is much clearer now how you calculate the Discounted Cash Flow and why. I think logically I understood it, but I think I still have some ingrained adversity to debt probably because I was raised like that, so not sure if I would go for it.
@weirded thanks! Yes, I think unfortunately my car use case does not include enough km to justify buying/leasing, so staying with Mobility for now although having a Tesla would be much cooler.
I did not do any quotes, but I did this math based on the web site offer:
Model 3:
Cash: CHF 45’980
Leasing: CHF10000 up front, 366/month for 5 years (60 months) rest payment CHF 17’013
–> (60*366+17013+10000)-45980 = 2993,
–> 2993/5 = 598.6 per year
–> 598.6/45980 = 1.3% interest per year
So I guess it is that not the high especially if you can get more than that elsewhere. Does this calculation make sense?
Thanks,