iShares Core MSCI World UCITS ETF - SWX or which market buy is best?

[syndroma]

Hi all,

My first buy in ETF - will choose:

• Shares Core MSCI World UCITS ETF USD (Acc), ISIN: IE00B4L5Y983; WKN: A0RPWH

Goal: > 15 < 20 years buy and hold.

As a swiss a buy it for USD - so i will buy some USD over “Wise” (Transferwise) and transfer it to Swissquote in USD.

As i learned, the exchange rate over the long period of time is not that important but the “spread” and “volume” of the market. So you can buy this ETF on the following stock exchanges in Swissquote:

Symbol	Name	Markt	Währ.	Letzter	Veränderung	Volumen	Höchst	Tiefst
TradeEUNL	ISHRS CORE MSCI WORLD USD ACC	Stuttgart	EUR	75.637	-3.399 (-4.30 %)	251’671	77.68	75.038
TradeIWDAN	iShares Core MSCI World UCITS ETF USD (Acc)	America	MXN	1’840.00	- (-)	211’278	-	-
TradeSWDA	ISHRS CORE MSCI WORLD USD ACC	Italienischer	EUR	76.30	-2.68 (-3.39 %)	146’928	77.27	76.17
TradeEUNL	ISHRS CORE MSCI WORLD USD ACC	Düsseldorf	EUR	76.12	-2.882 (-3.65 %)	6’044	77.84	76.10
TradeSWDA	ISHRS CORE MSCI WORLD USD ACC	UK	GBX	6’466.00	-177.00 (-2.66 %)	129’500	6’532.00	6’466.00
TradeEUNL	ISHRS CORE MSCI WORLD USD ACC	Xetra	EUR	76.298	-2.67 (-3.38 %)	795’292	77.27	76.154
TradeIWDA	ISHRS CORE MSCI WORLD USD ACC	Euronext	EUR	76.24	-2.725 (-3.45 %)	178’578	77.325	76.17
TradeIWDA	ISHRS CORE MSCI WORLD USD ACC	UK	USD	86.30	-2.23 (-2.52 %)	526’497	87.59	86.21
TradeEUNL	ISHRS CORE MSCI WORLD USD ACC	Hamburg	EUR	75.93	-3.04 (-3.85 %)	2’311	77.56	75.93
TradeEUNL	ISHRS CORE MSCI WORLD USD ACC	München	EUR	75.934	-3.082 (-3.90 %)	3’720	77.55	75.934
TradeEUNL	ISHRS CORE MSCI WORLD USD ACC	Frankfurt	EUR	76.08	-2.902 (-3.67 %)	33’643	77.70	75.932
TradeIRRRF	iShares Core MSCI World UCITS ETF USD (Acc)	America	USD	88.0841	- (-)	722	-	-
TradeSWDA	iSh Core MSCI Wrld USD Acc	SIX	USD	86.25	-2.27 (-2.56 %)	13’397	87.08	86.23
TradeEUNL	ISHRS CORE MSCI WORLD USD ACC	Berlin	EUR	76.248	-2.806 (-3.55 %)	536	78.20	76.248

The domicil of the ETF is anyway Ireland so i need to fill out the specified tax form for refunding the 35% VAT. This is independent on where i buy the ETF.

The following market places are the best according to the volume and spread:

• XETRA (biggest volume - but in EUR)
• UK

SWX is with the volume of about 13’397 trades in comparison to 795K/520K of XETRA and UK much smaller.
Course Differences (spreads):
XETRA = 0.048
UK = 0.06
SWX = ~0.05

I would buy in UK because:

• The volume is much higher than in CHF in the currency is the same as the ETF (USD)
• The spread is alike the samke as in SWX or Xetra (.0.01 higher)
• I will save the swiss “Stempelgebühren” of the swiss market SWX

BUT when i entering the transaction in Swissquote “as a test” for looking how many costs occurs (buying 55 ETF on both markets UK and SWX):

• UK = USD 37.97
• SWX = USD 19.59

Question: are all costs included inclusinve the swiss “Stempelgebühren” in SWX?

Question to you guys:

• does this makes sense?
• What Strategy if a ETF can be handled in more then one market in NON-CHF: 1) Swiss SWX first, market with bigger volume or less spread?

Any suggestions or inputs are warmly welcome.

Thank you so much for your support

Enjoy your weekend

[Burningstone]

The TER (Total Expense Ratio) for MSCI World is pretty high with 0.20% vs. the standard Vanguard funds with something around 0.04% used by most here in the forum.

Why do you want the MSCI World instead of VT or VWRL?

[San_Francisco]

@syndroma

As i learned, the exchange rate over the long period of time is not that important but the “spread” and “volume” of the market.

Neither is important.

Over a 15 to 20 year holding period, both are rather negligible. Daily, even intraday volatility is probably higher than market spread or a 0.5% cost for currency conversion through Wise. And both will be - in your scenario - pretty much one-time costs.

I’d rather focus on ongoing costs and charges.

Or, alternatively (and personally I think even more so) your choice of index and/or fund - and their performance. It’s not as if MSCI World is the be-all and end-all of possible investment opportunities. There are indices and funds that have considerably outperformed MSCI World over the long term (whether you think that’s going to continue is another matter - but personally I’m happy to make bets).

@syndroma

so i will buy some USD over “Wise” (Transferwise) and transfer it to Swissquote in USD.

It that transfer free? It’s probably an international USD SWIFT transfer, isn’t it?

@syndroma

BUT when i entering the transaction in Swissquote “as a test” for looking how many costs occurs (buying 55 ETF on both markets UK and SWX):

What amount are you actually planning to invest?

[jay]

@syndroma

As a swiss a buy it for USD - so i will buy some USD over “Wise” (Transferwise) and transfer it to Swissquote in USD.

@syndroma

I would buy in UK because:

• […]
• I will save the swiss “Stempelgebühren” of the swiss market SWX

You have to pay stamp duty for transactions with all Swiss brokers. The exchange is not relevant. For foreign ETFs the rate is 0.15% for buy and sell transactions.

I.e. you can’t avoid it with Swissquote (unless you switch to mutual funds). You would have to switch to a foreign broker such as Interactive Brokers.

[Dr.PI]

@syndroma

SWX = USD 19.59

Volume is not important as long as the liquidity is there. And there is enough for you.

Liquidity of European ETFs when making large trades

Then again, you don’t necessarily need to get that money in 1 day. Maybe a few weeks or a month will also be convenient depending on situation/urgency

Where to find free Bid/Ask Spread (European markets including SIX)

They are not exactly less liquid. The liquidity is there, provided by market makers. It is just not many actual trades happening. At the moment shown on the screenshot, you can buy ca. 1.5 million CHF worth of this ETF. And if you take some liquidity, market makers will almost instantly add more!

Swissquote have a fixed price of 9 CHF for buying ETFs at SIX. That’s probably what you see. In the app you can see all costs separately, from what I remember.

@syndroma

As a swiss a buy it for USD - so i will buy some USD over “Wise” (Transferwise) and transfer it to Swissquote in USD.

You can buy it for USD at SIX or for EUR at XETRA, but for a Swiss resident EUR is much easier to handle and free to transfer.

@syndroma

I will save the swiss “Stempelgebühren” of the swiss market SWX

With a Swiss broker, you pay Swiss stamp duty when you buy foreign securities on ANY exchange. Otherwise this forum would have 40% less messages.

@syndroma

What Strategy if a ETF can be handled in more then one market in NON-CHF: 1) Swiss SWX first, market with bigger volume or less spread?

Calculate total costs including currency conversion. And the answer will be - buy at degiro and request a transfer from time to time.

[Dr.PI]

@Burningstone

The TER (Total Expense Ratio) for MSCI World is pretty high with 0.20% vs. the standard Vanguard funds with something around 0.04% used by most here in the forum.

That one is actually pretty good if you compare tracking differences and performance of ETFs tracking this index. So if the topic starter insists on this index, ETF in question is not a bad choice.

ETFs auf den MSCI World Index - ETF Tracking Differences and Performance

However Vanguard FTSE Developed World has lower TER and tracking difference, but it is a different index. Not by much, but still. But it is quoted in CHF on SIX.

Vanguard FTSE Developed World UCITS ETF (IE00BKX55T58) - ETF Tracking...

[nabalzbhf]

@syndroma

The domicil of the ETF is anyway Ireland so i need to fill out the specified tax form for refunding the 35% VAT.

That sounds odd, I’d assume if there’s such a thing it would at the exchange level (and unlikely to matter given the amounts involve?)

Also VAT in EU is usually in the 20% range.

[Dr.PI]

@syndroma

The domicil of the ETF is anyway Ireland so i need to fill out the specified tax form for refunding the 35% VAT.

You mix up something. Quite a lot.

[Dr.PI]

Like a joke goes: not VAT, but withholding tax, and not for Irish, but for Swiss securities. Otherwise it’s correct.

[Mr.Chef]

Hi everyone, someone here is investing in SWDA?

[logitacher]

I do, altough my ticker is IWDA.AS because IB smart routing buys the stock on the amsterdam exchange as it is the cheapest. Haven’t thought about buying it on SWX because I trust the IB smart routing.

[Neville]

I do. Combined with EIMI.

[noirmont]

care to share your bets buddy (that can beat SWX/VT over the mid/long run)?

[San_Francisco]

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[syndroma]

@Burningstone

VT or VWRL

yes sorry. As it is written in one of the Blog articles of mustachianpost.com concerning the yearly TAX. Good description with tipps in how to handle.