Impact of AI on society, pensions, and the stock market

Hi all. I’d be interested in your opinions/predictions about how the rapid adoption of AI will impact markets and other aspects of finance. From my (limited) perspective, things don’t look too rosy for job markets, social insurance schemes, pension funds, and subsequently demand for everything from consumer goods to real estate. I also foresee these changes much faster than most people seem to imagine.

But I understand that firstly, it is impossible to accurately predict future developments, and secondly, that my expectations are based on my limited knowledge.

Since this forum includes members from many different walks of life and industry sectors, I’d be very interested in hearing your opinions and forecasts with regards to how AI will impact markets, finance, and social security.

I think it will come gradually, then all at once.

I see it at the periphery. But I’m in a big multinational which is very bad at adopting new technology and so I think it will take a while before they really get it together, but then the impact will be massive. We are already systematically replacing teams one by one with AI.

Smaller business adopt more rapidly, and you don’t see the impact so much because firstly, they are not as visible and secondly, it manifests as reduced/eliminated hiring instead of large scale firings. I spoke to one such business who believed his small team was operating with the output of a 200 person team due to aggressive leveraging of AI.

Lot’s of work will dry up for small scale self-service jobs e.g. I don’t see myself paying for translation, graphic design, illustration, voiceovers, transcription, etc. Only areas that are protected are those that require certification e.g. certified translations.

1 Like

It will come though. I am same position, but recently saw a demo of agentic AI that does essentially what we do.

Humans won’t be entirely replaced, but I do think for younger people starting out there will be fewer junior roles, and just less roles overall compared to revenue of a company. Either you do more with current team or same with half the team kind of thing.

Ironically, the fewer junior roles means less people with knowledge as the years go by which may backfire for firms. Who knows.

But I do think the job market will change. And not for the benefit of the employee.

3 Likes

So what companies exist which benefit from reduced headcount costs, but are not too reliant/sensitive to consumer budgets?

Ain’t it obvious? For me it’s the shovel sellers and their buyers, ie the tech industry. They monetize any job replaced.

Yep, that’s obvious to me too, but by then some few would be even more filthy rich for 10 generations, so nofcksgivn.

Furthermore, reduced headcounts will lead to reduced salaries, then reduced spending, and hence reduced earnings, and dropped stockmarket.

Luckily toilet paper, toothpaste, soap and dividends never go out of style :smiling_face_with_horns:

Only consolation I have is that I am old enough to be somewhat senior at my role with soft skills being more important than knowledge, and my kids are young enough to hopefully weather the wild west stage, which I predict the next 10 years to be, while still sheltered at home/in education.

2 Likes

How would you foresee the AHV and occupational pension funds faring in the event of a gross decrease in employees (less contributions) combined with an aging population (more outflows)?

Bailed out by the govt + pensions cut + retirement age raised to “If you can breathe you’re good to work”, most likely. Isn’t this why we’re all here anyway? I know I am, it’s no fun turning my work, education and income into deprivation and little charts on the screen.

No fun…at all…ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated? (Edit: do watch the linked video, it’s from 1978. I wish it was 1978 today!)

Yes, I’m weighing up the trade-offs between continuing and earning a salary vs transferring pillar 2 into VB fund :stuck_out_tongue:

I was working in big tech.

I went from being an AI neutralist to an AI negativist. Big tech is trying to push all sorts of tech down our throat, to find a diamond in piles of shit. Unfortunately, that diamond hasn’t been found yet.

Ofc, compared to some recentish ideas and hype cycles, like crypto, it is day and night, and has very good applications, though if you dig deep enough, the shortcomings are obvious and the issue lies in the last 10% of a problem area, which won’t necessarily be solved with these current ideas.

The current hype cycle has already turned onto a downward trajectory. I think in a year or two, we’ll have more clarity on what the good applications are, where we don’t necessarily require deep specificity, which this current tech cannot provide.

Ofc this does not mean that we couldn’t have breakthrough ideas that make further progress, however, that progress is still an unknown unknown.

3 Likes

I don’t foresee a big decrease in employees headcounts.

I think some business are making meaningful and thoughtful adoption of AI and will benefit for it while tightening their payroll.

Some are adopting it too early and slopily on the basis it can perform things it can’t or can only if mindfully implemented and will become less performative as a result. Those will be challenged, some by employers they have laid out, and new companies will arise.

Human creativity will enter into play and new job positions will be created. New companies will arise and society will adapt.

That or we fail to have meaningful wealth and opportunities redistribution and we let the mega rich wall themselves off the rest of society, in which case, the future is less rosy but will adapt in a different manner through more tumultuous times.

2 Likes

They have already walled themselves off the rest of society, no? Just look at the way they avoid paying taxes, can we do the same?

I think it’s a spectrum and we still have some meaningful margin before bigger shakeovers. Whether we’ll use that margin to craft a good future for most or fall into dystopia is anyone’s bet. I tend to be positive minded.

What do you mean by deep specificity?

When I mentioned specificity, I meant in the context of generators. The data distribution of their training follows a normal distribution.

That means that most of the time they’ll get right common knowledge, or ballparkable/generatable knowledge. Uhm there was that book, that explains the phenomena https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/68143.The_Wisdom_of_Crowds

The more on the outskirts of the data distribution you go, the more inaccuracies or ‘invented/hallucinated’ information you find.

Ofc there are ways to diminish these, however, there seem to be current limitations with the technology that might not be solved.

Still, it’s a really good stepping stone for learning what we’re missing and why.

—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-

On the other hand, it does ‘revolutionize’ a lot of branches where good enough will suffice, hence why I’d like to think that once sentiment changes, only these will pass the test of time.

3 Likes

I would have quoted metaverse instead.

There’s a lot of shite in crypto, not the whole idea is that bad.

2 Likes

I think I’ve not been 100% clear on where I stand. This is actually my stance:

I think the disruption LLMs / GenAI can bring is limited and can’t branch out too much. It is a significant improvement on some things but I think of it as going from a typewriter to a word processing software: it will make things more efficient for those who know how to integrate them into their companies but it will not fundamentally change the way we do business or the usefulness of our wok input for most people.

It is currently being hyped by tech sellers and investors because they have big gains to make and doomsday is being sold by the press/reporters/podcasters because that’s what sells but I think the actual reality will be significantly less disruptive than it is hyped to be.

7 Likes

I think I’m biased somewhat against crypto because of the blatantly shameless speculations it brought, and the number of conversations I had with ppl quoting ‘THE BOOK’ like a religious cult, that ‘will change your mind’.

You’re right, there are use cases, especially in security, where branches of the current idea/recent developments are useful.

I guess there is more wrong with human nature than crypto. I don’t think the idea is/was bad, we tried it, didn’t work/is not feasible for the things it was pushed for. The tech itself didn’t ask to be an ‘end all be all’ for everything, we did label it like that.

There’s a lot of realistic scenarios with very different economic outcomes. I personally ignore the “post-scarcity utopia”, “doom via a handful of oligarchs/CCP/etc owning everything”, and “doom via human disempowerment or extermination” scenarios. Not because they’re impossible or even unlikely, but because in those scenarios what we do today on a personal level doesn’t matter. Wealth is just irrelevant.

I ignore the “we don’t get powerful AI systems orders of magnitude cheaper per unit of intelligence than humans” scenario as so unlikely that it might as well be impossible given the trajectory of the systems over the last few years. But I can see why rational people would disagree.

Given those priors, the only scenario worth optimizing for is the one where we do get powerful AI systems that transform the economy, but humanity manages to retain control and we maintain rule of law and property rights. What does that world look like?

First, what are the bottlenecks? They will change over time, but at the limit it will be compute and energy. And with solar and wind power, energy basically reduces to land. I have seriously looked into buying relatively large areas of currently low value land somewhere in Europe with a stable government. (And I realize this makes me sound like a crazy person trying to sell you a pamphlet in the tram).

During the transition period, economic growth will be high. Return on invested capital will be very high, so there will be a lot of demand for capital. That implies that as the takeoff happens, we’ll end up with very high interest rates. Holding variable interest rate debt will be brutal.

Human labor will become devalued, except for the rare situations where having inefficient humans do the work is used to signal status. People making a comparative advantage argument for why it won’t happen are just fundamentally misunderstanding the dynamics and mis-applying the concept.

I think we’re fundamentally looking at a UBI, funded by the governments taxing AI-related economic activity. My guess is that the taxation will mostly focus on the energy production rather than the data centers (energy production is guaranteed to happen everywhere and is therefore taxable at the point of production, while data centers can flee to low tax jurisdictions).

Social mobility will screech to a halt once human talent stops mattering for outcomes. The relative wealth levels will be basically frozen in time, modulo redistribution. If you want to make your (relative) fortune, the time is over the next few years, it won’t be possible later. If you have special leverage of any type, now is the time.

Predicting specific winners will be hard. For established companies it will depend a ton on whether they manage to make the transition to AI-first workflows. So broad diversification across business and sectors will still be the right call. Diversification across jurisdictions will be more important than ever.

Ok, crazy person out.

2 Likes

My 2 cents:

AI will help a lot on everything that can be resolved. Mechanics, engineering, even some part of science and medicine and so on.

It will not help a lot on things that are not logic like the stock market. All the financial experts are almost always wrong and so will the AI be. And the experts are wrong without knowing they are wrong, but the evidence says they are wrong. (Meteorologists at least know they are wrong).

So, I actually like the AI entering the stock market. More errors, more money for me to be made.

4 Likes

Interesting viewpoint. How would you see this in relation to the scenario in which all information about all markets right down to the bottom at the production and consumer levels is available and aggregated? Would markets, at that point, still be a question of logic, or simply information?