Worst case they’ll ask you for details? Seems low risk if that’s what you prefer.
Here’s the equivalent form, if I’m not mistaken. To quote the footnote (emphasis them, not me):
“Par relevé fiscal bancaire, il faut comprendre exclusivement le relevé annuel de votre portefeuille titres à sa valeur fiscale émis, sur demand, par l’établissement bancaire auprès duquel les titres sont en dépôt”
Does the IBKR report list the tax value determined by the federal tax administration? Probably not.
They are not a bank that produces tax statements conforming to local law.
Does it make a substantial difference in the year end values though? Again, probably not.
IBKR applied a USD/CHF exchange rate of 0.885081 to my year end holdings on 31 dec 2020.
ICTax lists a rate of 0.883944.
That’s a difference of approximately 0.13%.
In my canton that would amount to a difference in wealth tax of about 5 CHF per Million CHF of wealth.
…though in my case the FX differences almost cancel each other out with holdings in other currencies.
Thanks for the example!
Because my IBKR activity statement is 22 pages long, I am going to try to list all assets together with their dividends (with the assets+dividends subject to witholding tax separated) as “relevés fiscaux bancaires (depôts de titres)” in VaudTax. I will send my activity statement along with it. If the tax office complains I will redo it.
I thought I am more likely to make a mistake when I dont do it the easy way.
I believe it’s fine to list the overall position and income as one line.
Last year it took me so much time to make it share by share, in the end they don’t even request any document.
Would you mind sharing which fields you filled in the relevés fiscaux bancaires with which data? I’m looking at my IBKR statement and can’t for the life of me figure out how to fill in based on the data requested.
This is just my attempt at an answer. Please correct me and/or do your own research and diligence.
- Fortune, valeur imposable au 31.12.20xx ← Net Asset Value* of portfolio at 31 December
- Rendements bruts échus en 2020 non soumis** à l’impôt anticipé ← Dividends + Broker interest received***
* without accruals, cause they should be taxed in the next tax period?
** cause at foreign broker, such as IBKR, income is not subject to Swiss anticipatory tax
*** plus possibly other income. As far as I know IBKR would notably not report retained income from accumulating funds (though it should be listed on the return)
DA-1 is optional. If the amount of non-recuperable withholding in DA-1 is less than 100 CHF, you can also declare net dividends and net interest in your tax return - though that might need additional reporting, since IBKR (…I think?) does not indicate on their reports.
Hi, yes I will. Haven’t gotten back to it yet. I thought we would apply common sense and quickly finalize it but got confused with the repetitive entries of “releves fiscaux bancaire” (occurs three times) and which one to use.
After a small simulation of a few VT positions the “lengthy” way and the easy, single entry way, the total amount of taxes did not change. This gave us some confidence that it is more or less ok to declare our stock positions under “releves fiscaux bancaires” under “imputatation forfataire d’impot (DA-1)”. Of course I have no idea if the tax authorities will accept this.
From the activity statement we take the dividends, withholding tax and ending value:
Then you add it here in VaudTax:
I hope the tax office will accept this.
Canton Vaud accepted our “one line” stock declaration as I described above. This saved me tons of work!!!
In a standard Swiss “relevé fiscal” you will have several values for wealth and income for positions subject to wiltholding tax, positions not subject to any withholding tax, positions to report in the DA-1 section and US positions. That’s 4 types of positions times 2 files (wealth and income), so 8 datapoints. If you just copy the values and attach the “relevé” to your tax declaration it’s way easier. The thing is Swiss brokers usually charge several hundred CHF for this document.
As you have happily discovered yourself, the tax authorities also accept this way of doing even though the “relevé fiscal” is not the official Swiss one
Truly interesting and helpful for my next tax declaration for 2021, thank you
I managed to do this (one line for the whole of my IBKR) for Basel last year, it went through.
Has anyone been able to do it in the (online) Zurich tax software?
I am playing around in the DA-1 WV piece, but it’s becoming messy.
E.g. it automatically applies 15% to whatever dividends I specify, and I want to set the amount manually.
I can “hack” it towards the proper amount by tuning the percentage to 16%, but…
Ultimately it would look like this:
Would that be correct?
But then the WV (non-DA-1) should be left empty (re. IBKR)?
As far as I know, you can’t (or at least aren’t supposed to) specify non-DA-1 securities in DA-1. I.e. if you have both types of securities at IBKR, at the very least you need to split it into two entries, one for WV and one for DA-1. And if you have non-US DA-1, you need two DA-1 lines, one for US-only and one for the rest. I think this split is commonly done on the cover sheet of Swiss tax reports by robo advisors and wealth managers.
And with this split I assume the automatic 15% is fine or why do you need to adjust it?
That makes sense, was thinking of splitting it myself too.
Just a bit more calculations then on my end.
FWIW the database has wrong withholding for ETFs whose dividends are partially exempt from US withholding (e.g. BND). You’d need to fix it manually to match the actual withholding (iirc, I don’t hold BND anymore).
I did the opposite in Geneva with GeTax software and details all my transactions for the 4 distributing etf I owned in IBKR.
The dividends and withholding tax were calculated correctly and matching the IBKR report amount already converted in chf (it is my based currency).
However I didn’t see the amount of the withholding tax to be refunded in the summary.
I declare 1 line for each of my foreign brokers and declare the amount of dividends received in chf. I joined my calculation with the detail of dividends as an attachement.
I hope it will work and they won’t bug me to enter the whole constitution as I got more than 30 lines with some accumulated funds.
The bad news is that I will certainly pay an extra +3000 in taxes even with the deduction of the pillar contribution… damn
Extra compared to what?
(Because of dividends? )
Compare to what I have been taxed at source. Most of it come from rental property and fortune tax.
Foreign dividend and rental property increase my tax rate.
For your information, I used this “technique” in my tax return this year, it worked perfectly! Although the Canton of Vaud only deducted the sum of 55 CHF from the 114 CHF of VT witholdings dividends. This 55 CHF was reduced from my taxes. That’s still one less thing to pay.
As for the tax statement, I used this custom model: Interactive Brokers for dummies - #413 by xerox5003
I didn’t have any problems, so in the end, you can put all your positions (US stocks, CH, EUR, US ETF, CH, etc.) in this section and the authority will take everything into account. No need to mention European positions in another section, as I had done for my iShare SPI. They corrected by saying that this ETF was already declared in the DA-1 section.