Foxstone as an investment vehicle

Looking at Foxstone besides Crowdhouse - they now have a project where you can get 5.4% return for a fixed year (on CHF base) - seems to be a nice way to park money against negative interests.
I just don’t quite see the transparency on risks (what happens if the company goes bankrupt or the refinancing project goes bankrupt in the meantime?), so I asked them. I’ll follow if they reply.

here’s the deep link, but I think you need to register to open up the details.

https://app.foxstone.ch/en/offerings/geneve-1

Hivemind mustachian review of the above would be much appreciated.

Investors will provide the capital and carry all the risk. Real estate agents and intermediaries will earn their fees regardless and have little or no skin in the game

Sorry if I am negative but I had a bad experience owning a share of a building. Ask yourself, if they have a good investment opportunity, why would they offer investors 5.4% when banks provide mortgages at 1-2 %, private equity is also very cheap?

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what was your bad experience, if I may ask?

isn’t this the (project) about the cost of private equity?

I understand the RE agents will have their share either way. But that’s the way it works, isn’t it?

2 examples

  1. loan to fund construction of a building outside of CH. Construction never got started due to planning issues, limited company went bust and money was spent on salaries to its directors and employees. Investors were last in line after all other debtors. Luckily I sent a demand for payment before the company got wound up and I got my money back. Others were not so lucky.

  2. I purchased share of a rental building in CH. Rental returns never materialised. High maintenance and repair costs. No way to exit the investement without agreement of other investors. Building was luckily sold at a profit but real estate agent added bogus fees and passed it through limited liability companies, I made 2% over 10 years. Legal cost to get money back from reals estate agent was prohibitively high

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  1. Outside CH is more risky than a building in Geneva downtown, no ?
  2. With this investment you do not buy a share of a rental building. It is a crowdfunding investment backed with a “cédule” on the building.

So, what is the real risk ?
I am also interested in this opportunity … but what is the risk ?

There are real estate projects in Geneva that have gone bust - I know someone who lost their deposit for a flat in this one

Not sure if you saw the “Bijou” thread, there was discussion of risks on real estate projects there

EDIT: more details on the above case here

Thanks for the topic, I have the same questions about the investment with Foxstone. It seems to be too easy with no risks at all.

I got the files to invest in a building in L’Abbaye yesterday, which is located in the Vallée de Joux (beautiful area but a little bit lost lol, in the jura vaudois). 8mio for the building, that’s a lot but ok according to the experts.

It seems to easy to get 5% per year just with no effort and an investement of minimum 25k, if anybody knows the risks and legal issues with this kind of business? for example, what’s going on if the vacancy rate increase a lot ? or the building needs a high maintenance, more than the previsions? the predictions of 5% will drop to what? plus you will pay a property tax

However, this agency seems to be serious with some projects successfully done and no problem actually.

I own some REIT shares which are a good investment, that’s why I’m interested in the crowfunding real estate in Switzerland…

I prefer crowlending project. Being the owner of a part of a building means you are legally responsible.

I guess it can drop to -3% if the building is empty

Yep, I agree, crowlending seems to be a better way to invest than crowfunding.

5% does not take into account taxes.

Read up on the Crowdhouse thread, this investment vehicle type has been discussed there.

I have few shares in a Building for about 6 months, and I do confirm that this company is really serious in all the require field. The actual yield is 6,7% (before tax) distributed every 3 months on my bank account. I also participated in a crowdfunding refinancing project in a Geneva building but the term is ending in 9 months so I can’t give you the end result yet.

Again in all investment there is a risk, but personally the fact that I personally own parts in a newly built building and the fact that there is several apartment, I do feel confident. The idea is that you will still receive a payment every 3 months but it might vary according to the number of rented apartments. The yield is diluted following the number of share holder which is great.

You have to carefully select on what building you want to invest according to the year of built, it’s location, number of apartment, etc…

Personally I’m 100% happy with the building I’ve chosen.

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to add on top, they have now crossed the “Röstigraben” and are available in German for those living on this side of Bern.

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I also invested in the Geneva crowd funding investment.

Depending on the result, I might buy shares of building.

The potential lack of liquidity might be a problem if you want to sell you shares later, no?

What are the advantages of choosing fox stone and not a real estate fund?

Do you have an example of such fund?

Here is a list:

Dear all, hereafter is my experience.

4 months ago, I was searching a way to invest 25kCHF and real estate crowdfunding appears as an interesting way. Imvesters.ch and foxstone.ch are two actors in this area.

I began a project with Foxstone, in a project with 5.5% before taxes, getting information, downloading forms, uploading forms and an appointment with the notary (online) to validate my profile and my signature.

Up to here, everything was fine, and nothing to pay.

After a while (>one month) in December '21 with no news from Foxstone, I decided to send emails and make phone calls and the answer was “your contact will call you back soon”. I was not in s good mood.

To me, no news = bad news, i.e. something is running wrong.

In January '21, I decided to cancel my file. As they notice that, one day after…, they call me to know why, and to tell me that the notary will charge me to make changes in the acquisition files. I asked the amount of fees and one week later, the guy from Foxstone told me that finally there will be no fee to pay.

That was the end of this aventure.

I don’t regret my decision to cancel, as I read your previous messages in this thread.

Hope it helps.
πR

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You have probably picked the wrong investment vehicle for your appetite.
You shall not jump around after 4 months (not even after 4 years) with real estate. It’s a long-run-game.

You need to make them aware that they have an obligation to pay you if payments are missed. That’s why you have signed all those papers in the first place. Force quitting the contract is the worst thing you can do financially and legally.