We are in the process of becoming future homeowners of an individual house built about 13 years ago. The house is in a good condition and equipped with a geothermal heat pump (Wärmepumpe mit Erdsonde). The water is warmed up with electricity (not with the heat pump).
We recently chose the notary who will set up the purchase contract. Once the purchase contract is signed, there is no going back, therefore I want to be sure we are not forgetting or overlooking something. From what I could gather online purchase contracts can be very one-sided (to the favor of the seller) while still being perfectly legal, this is something I would like to avoid .
Special in our case is that the house will be only available in about 12-14 months, therefore we have to make somehow sure that the house stays in the same condition as it currently is. I guess it would probably make sense to visit it again and make a thorough inventory with a lot of photographic evidence of the current state of the house? Or what would you suggest? We took already pictures during the first visit, but I didn’t take pictures with the idea of making a full inventory of the house conditio n.
Another thing where I have some doubts is about the geothermal heat pump. I am not sure how well maintained it is; the real estate agent seemed to downplay this and said geothermal heat pumps don’t need maintenance which I think is BS. I want to avoid the situation where we take over the house in summer and in winter, we have problems with the heating and we will not be able to prove that these issues already preexisted. Has anyone experience with geothermal heat pumps and issues that can arise after 10-15 years of use? What kind of maintenance is usual for a geothermal heat pump? What should we look into specifical ly?
We did visit the house with an architect and a construction manager, but of course they are not experts in heat pumps and we did not look more specifically at the heat pump. I am also wondering if we can expect expensive issues with the warm water boi ler.
To all homeowners: hindsight is always 20/20, what would you have done differently if you were to buy your house/flat again? What are things you overlooked during the purchasing process? What are important clauses to put in the purchase cont ract?
I find that standard contracts are good enough since deliberately hidden defaults can still be denounced after the fact. The house should be available shortly after the contract is signed in my opinion, though, so you may indeed want to make doubly sure you are correctly protected.
I would:
ask for another visit and take lots of pictures.
make sure you have an understanding about what is sold with the house and what is not (appliances, furniture, etc.).
sign the contract now but state that the purchase takes effect at the date when the house is free. The final payment for the house should be made by that date and be kept in custody at the notary until the actual transfer of property is registered in the land registry.
It is customary for the buyer to choose the notary (it is also customary for the buyer to pay for all notary fees. The real estate agent of the sellers should be paid by the sellers). Choose someone you trust or ask the people you know about recommendations.
Ask a geothermal heat pump manufacturer about expected maintenance before signing.
Make sure you have a copy of all easements that apply on the parcel as well as the co-ownership rules if applicable.
One thing I don’t understand is why on Earth sanitary water wouldn’t be heated by the heat pump. What does the heat pump even heat at this point?
normal contract is that the seller is liable for any damage up until the day of sale. if you are concerned you could write into contract that they will allow an inspection a few days before closing.
however, normally the sellers will disclaim all liabilities and you buy the house ‘as-seen’. though given the long timeline, this might not really be appropriate.
honestly, if i buy a propery, i’m assuming stuff like the heating is likely broken and needs replacing.
Thanks for your answer! Hidden defaults can still indeed be denounced after the fact, but from what I read from different resources is that in practice it can be very hard to prove that a default was delibarately hidden. Regarding your list of points:
Yes this is also what I have in mind. Another visit and taking lots of pictures is also what I have in mind
Good point. I always assumed until now that kitchen appliances (oven, fridge, etc.) and the laundry machines would be sold with the house (and furnitures not), but that is something to clarify with the real estate agent
We will sign the contract soon and pay a deposit (which amounts to less than 10% of the purchase price). The full amount will be paid later when the actual transfer of property happens. So I think that is fine.
Yes, the real estate agent suggested a notary and was a bit insisting first to use that one. But in the end we chose another one. I contacted 5-6 different notaries and had them on the phone to discuss the structure of the sale suggested by the real estate agent. We chose a notary with whom I had a good feeling and that also has good Google reviews. We don’t know any notaries at all and also our acquaintances don’t really know the notaries. So calling a few of them and looking at Google reviews was our best way to choose one.
I have to figure out if there was some kind of regular maintenance of the heat pump and also the brand of the heat pump (I unfortunately didn’t take any close-up pictures of the heat pump). Then I could probably contact the manufacturer of the heat pump and ask about expected maintenance and likely issues given the age of the heat pump
Yes we got the extract from the land register pretty early in the process (before the first visit). One of the banks wanted to see that document before committing to funding us
Regarding your last question, no idea why sanitary water wouldn’t be heated by the heat pump…
Thank you for your answer. Indeed in a standard contract, the seller is liable for any damage up to the date of transfer of property… however in practice the problem is always to bring the proof that the damage was already there.
That is interesting that you assume the heating is likely broken when buying the property. Are you also lowering your offer price compared to the selling price with this assumption in mind? Or are you just putting some money aside for likely repair costs of the heating system?
Another thing that popped up in my mind: from what I read somewhere, it is also possible to take over insurance and maintenance contracts from the previous owner. Is this something that would be also explicitly mentioned in the purchase contract?
I could then ask the real estate agents which current maintenance contracts the current owner has and this would be a way to discover whether there is regular maintenance of the heat pump.
Kind of late to rediscuss the price, only if there is some hidden damage now.
depends, in Aargau it is usually 50/50. On the other notary costs are on the lower side and strictly regulated (house price percentage).
I would expect the electric components for control to fail first (the control unit itself and/or the sensors). If the heat pump is already that old, It could be anyway the best to replace it for a more efficient model. The expensive part isthe drilling, the heat pump itself is not that much. I would ask if they had a maintenance contract. Compared to a gas/oil heating system, it should have less maintenance (no burn starter, no muck from the burning etc.).
For efficiency reasons. Normally heating water is 30-40°C depending on radiator system. Sanitary water is at 60°C min to avoid legionellas. You would kill a good COP just trying to reach those higher temperatures. You can get a separate heat pump for sanitary water.
No, he is right. They do not need regulary maintenance like an oilheater. Pression of the brine should be checked. some have a filter in the brine which can be cleanded. But this is mostly only a think when it is new. for comparison: your fridge runs also 20y without maintenance.
first: in private homes there is normally no legionella risk. assumed your boiler has an adapted volume (legionelles only grow when the water “sits” for a longer time. Hotels etc are more at risk since they have hot water systems designe for full capacity.
second: How would the COP better heating at 60° with another heatpump? Physics stays the same, only you have now two gadgets. From a client/home owner perspective there is no point to buy a second heatpump only for warmwater.
third: There is no reason for sanitary water at 60° all the time. If you feel more safe doing an “desinfection”, do it once a week. But also here, study shows: it is not at the boiler where legionellas grow. It ist where water sits unused. For example in the cellar where you are not using it often (and the water pipe stays warm for a long time, without insulation there is much less issue because the temperatur will be quickly at 20° with much less risk for legionella"). For proper desinfection you need to flush all the water faucets until you have at the outlet at least 60°.
Agree with you on the legionella case and that you do not need 60°C. I myself run my system at 50°C. I was just stating the default setup.
Because for the big usage (heating) you use the heatpump at one optimal point. For the smaller need (sanitary water), you use a smaller one (also designed at optimal point). Here it is about machinery which are designed for different optimal operating points (one going up to 30-40°C, the other one for 60°C). The one for 60°C will have a smaller COP, but better if you are mixing both. (The question was, why it is not done with the same heatpump → answer is that the operating points are not the same).
I also agree, in general the usage is so low, that it does not make sense.
Regarding maintenance, it may be true that a geothermal heat pump requires less maintenance than an oilheater, but that does not mean no maintenance at all…
From a quick search on ChatGPT, following things would need to be inspected regularly:
Indeed, I didn’t burn any tokens, but countless hours over 5 years in a webforum exchanging with humans 90% about heating systems.
What AI didn’t tell you, is that all of these things can be done by anybody which more or less clear sight. You need to check 2 pressure indicators (here you mostly even chan choose the old school manometer or the digital way) and all the rest is pure “Sichtkontrolle” (optical check/visibility check?).
So same rules apply as with your bike / lawnmower / car / cat / dishwasher or tractor:
if it makes strange noise, leaks where it shouldn’t leak, smells like it shoudn’t smell
→ call somebody or ask a community about it
If it is dirty/full of dust → clean it (wasn’t there a thing with the french car from @Moustachienne)
Seriously the “inspection” their are doing is, they open the hood, look and close it.
So if this older heatpumpt in OP’s house is without any electric cabels hanging aroung, leaking water/brine or losing coolant you dont need to care if each year someone came by or not.
Sounds very sophisticated yeah, there was the “piece of Swiss cheese” that appeared in the motor department of the French car when I took it to Switzerland and that never reappeared when I took it out and threw it away. No leakage, problem solved.
So many adventures with that car
Takeaways:
get familiar with the technology you’re owning and check on it from time to time.
Keep calm and ask the forum. Actually, maybe ask @newhere.
Well, I am far from being a heat pump expert, that is why I ask an AI and also here on this forum.
Also I am not leaving in the house yet, so it is kind of hard to assess whether it makes strange noises, leaks, smells, etc.
Not being a heat pump expert, I wouldn’t know how to inspect a heat pump either. Neither would I know how to inspect a tractor, sorry.
If there is some maintenance regularly performed, I can safely assume the heating system is in a good condition. If no maintenance, the condition of the heating system becomes a question mark for me. Kind of like cars, how would you feel buying a used car which hasn’t been serviced for years vs a car which has been regularly serviced?
We’ll still try to visit the house one last time and if you could give me tips what to look at specifically regarding the heat pump, I would be very grateful.
You should check if there is water/liquid dripping somewhere. Noise should be like a fridge, maybe bit louder, bus a steady noise level. But probably it will be off anyway since temperatures are high.
Also check the numbers on the pressure indicators (manometer) there should be two of ot. One on the heating water pipes and one on the brine pipes, the pipes going in the soil/outdoor.
Also make fotos of the heatpump, the boiler and the piping.
If you can „play around" with the heatpump check if you find some statistics, following number are intersting:
produced heating kWh
consumed energy kWh
Number of starts / „takte"
There are many heatpumps which run for 20 years without touching them at all. Uf you need to replace it, since the source (sonde) is already there I would assume costs of 10-15k CHF roughly.
Sorry about my sarcasm earlier. I intended to express, that heatpumps are machines which are designed to run without much work to do. And that most problems would be seen by a beginner, if he looks and listens to the machine. You might not know ä how a bad sound sounds by now, but you will notice immediately if something changes. But sure, there are also people not „aufmerksam" enough.
edit: forgot: there should be one or two expansion vessel (expansionsgefäss) knock on them with your finger. They should sound empty. If not the membrane is broken which is a standard issue after 10-20 years (they dont cost much to replace it)
thank you for the tips! The heating function will be very likely be off, maybe the heat pump will be used in the “cooling” mode as we are entering summer: does it still make sense to check the pressure indicators then? Also what kind of values would be normal/expected?
Regarding produced heating and consumed energy, I guess it is the ratio between the two which would be particularly interesting (the COP ratio), not necessarily the absolute values of these values, or do I miss something? Of course the consumed energy could be interesting to have an idea of the electricity cost, but otherwise?
About the sarcasm, no worries; it is just that I don’t have much trust in real estate agents, as they tend to downplay certain things and just want to sell the house for the highest possible price. I was a bit suspicious when the real estate agent said that no maintenance is required. That it is low-maintenance, ok. But no maintenance at all? Meh…
O would prefere esch value, With an unexpected ratio you dont have any clue why..
On the heatong circuit 1.5-.1.8 Bar. On the brine circuit i think similar. Usually on the gauges there is one rsnge with green color. Sometimes even an exact value. It it is outside this range this would be an indication of lack of maintenance
Obviously, if you have the separate values, you have more information available. From what I could gather on ther internet the COP of heat pumps typically ranges between 2.0 and 5.0 and a COP > 3.5 is considered a good value (e.g. efficient system).
Ok thanks for the inputs regarding the pressure measurements; will have a closer look at them when we visit the house again.
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yeah, there was the “piece of Swiss cheese” that appeared in the motor department of the French car when I took it to Switzerland and that never reappeared when I took it out and threw it away. No leakage, problem solved.