Finpension invest – a new robo-advisor for non-3a ETF investments

I tend to agree with this. Also the returns (IRR) that PE likes to mention that are often >10% are just the returns on invested cash, there will always be a portion which is not invested. Furthermore PE is having problems unloading assets, they then just transfer it to a continuation fund (probably advertise it as a great investment, maybe one of the funds offered here, offloaded to an innocent retail investor?). Higher interest rates is also not ideal for their financing. I’m also not so keen on the ethics some of these PE companies have (particularly large US PE), they have some very questionable investments like hospitals, ER and nursing homes where I have heard some horrible stories.

The only benefit I see from PE is further diversification and that companies are choosing to stay private instead of doing an IPO, something which was less frequent 20-30 years ago.
I am invested indirectly in PE through holding some shares of a European PE, as I think their investments are selective and they have a decent track record.

There was a good article from the Financial Times on PE (because norwegian sovereign wealth fund wanted to invest, but ultimately government said no due to lack of benefit and high costs), unfortunately behind paywall, although you can sign up to the Alphaville column for free and read it.

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Thank you. It’s weird, when I open the link to the article through this tweet, I can read the article wihout subscribing :man_shrugging:t2:

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Seems to be live now: https://finpension.ch/de/anlegen/

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damn…

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Missing the “not yet” button :joy:

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Yes, it’s live now.

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Imprecise translation TBH. No, I no longer have to work for my entire life. I could stop 5-10 years before retirement age.

“so that you could stop working today” or “so that you don’t have to work anymore for the rest of your life” would be better.

But I’m nitpicking :smiley:

Great to see it’s live :tada:

What is the question after that (or what was the one before)?

This one is a pretty tricky question to put in a risk assessment, IMHO. It could mean you no longer have a need to take risk, which could lead to a more conservative allocation, or that you have a greater ability to take risk, which could lead to a more agressive allocation. It could also mean that you’re at a stage where market fluctuations play a bigger role in your ability to sustain the life you want to live, or it could mean nothing as market returns are just a bonus to you and you don’t need to use them ever.

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6 posts were merged into an existing topic: Interactive Brokers - all eggs in one basket?

It’s the first question

After you chose yes, this is what shows up:
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Finpension Invest still forces you to hold 1% in cash…

Was negatively impressed by the performance of the Partners Group Fund. They compare themselves against a 70% ACWI / 30% Global Aggregate Bonds… and the Fund just about matches that performance. At least, if I got things right. This is not quite impressive.

If you any of you was interested in PE - I would rather just recommend buying a some Private Equity Holding Shares. Probably gives you a bigger upside than this fund. Plus daily liquidity.

They never had a year with negative performance in the last 9 years, perhaps that counts for something…

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With a product like this, it is important to take advantage of the features of a robo-advisor in general and finpension invest in particular:

  • combining multiple regional ETFs to achieve a TER below, say, 0.10%, compared to 0.15-0.22% of other UCITS world ETFs
  • correcting a generic “world portfolio” for things that are out of one’s control, e.g. excluding Swiss stocks to reduce the huge home bias resulting from 2nd pillar
  • reclaiming US WHT through finpension’s reporting
  • not having to consider implications/costs of handling foreign currencies, as there are no forex fees
  • being able to have more ETFs and/or making more frequent deposits than you would with a broker, as there are no transaction fees
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Amazing what magic quartely valuation does and if the valuation is performed by yourself or one of your friends (who have an incentive to show the results the PE wants…)

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2.3 Stock exchange taxes and federal stamp duty are charged to customers. [source] This is not included in the 0.39% fee (?).

Yeah I also value my 10 year old Mazda at 25k CHF. :smile:
Fortunately it’s off the market so I’m not getting some more random numbers from the public.

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Agreed. Evaluation a PE Funds‘ Performance needs at least 7-10 years of performance. This way, funds can run through a lifecycle plus you can smoothen out evonomic cycles a bit.

To be honest, never had a close look at PE myself but was surprised to see the bad performance on the first fund. Time will tell how the second performs, that one doesnt have such a long track record right now.

Re PE Valuations, biggest fun and probably a nice reality check is Private Equity Holdings NAV vs. Share Price developments. Quite imoressive how they diverge.

Don’t bother about the ignorant public, they have no idea how valuable your Mazda really is! It’s not about market price, but all about fundamental valuation. The market’s dumb money anyway, you know better :joy:

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So would you prefer Option 1 vs Option 2 and 3?

Option 1 -: World portfolio at FP
Option 2 -: FWRA at SQ
Option 3 -: FWRA at Neon

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The viability of finpension depends on the tax return for US WHT (supposedly 2% dividends * 15% withholding tax = 0.3%, which then needs to be reduced by the amount of non-US stocks) and combined TER.

Let’s say we have a portfolio that excludes Switzerland (because it is overweighted in 2nd pillar), with and without EM. We would have:

Index No EM With EM
S&P 500 75% 67%
EURO STOXX 50 11% 10%
MSCI Japan 6% 5%
FTSE 100 (UK) 4% 4%
MSCI Pacific ex Japan 3% 3%
MSCI Emerging Markets IMI 0% 10%
Cash 1% 1%
TER 0.074% 0.085%
TER of cheapest equivalent ETF* 0.15% 0.15%
TER advantage of finpension 0.076% 0.065%
US WHT advantage of finpension 0.225% 0.201%
Effective finpension fee 0.089% 0.124%

*MSCI World: HMWO; FTSE All-World: FWRA

This fee of around ~0.09-0.12% p.a. is really not that bad, considering you’d need to pay custody fees and transaction fees with SQ or PF.

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