I realize you also mentioned Seattle from where I have no experience. However, SF Bay Area CoL are horrific.
The last time I was there an Uber driver told me it’s his second job just to make rent. He was an electrical engineer. Housing is the worst, healthcare second. Even in-store prices are not that much cheaper. Groceries are more affordable but restaurants not so much. Then there’s the human cost of transport and traffic (terrible). The tech companies and their workforce are driving up the prices everywhere.
I have colleagues who have moved there from Switzerland. Some stayed, some came back. No one made bank. I’ve been in the US more times than I can count (and not just in CA). I have a family and I would never want to bring my kids up in the US. The quality of life in general is not what I want. I can’t even think about it with 5 kids and the associated stress.
For a single guy doing a 5 year stint it’s probably ok with a clear goal in mind. Being young and single is easier anywhere though.
I do. The guy has triple digit millions now but he’s still working because he only sold a part of the company and retained control. More importantly: he loves what he does. The last part is essential to understand because it’s hard(er) to create a successful business unless you are passionate about it. He was never about FIRE, he wanted to create one of the most successful companies in his field.
I don’t know his exact schedule but I would say he’s involved in many more things now: investing in other companies, philantropy etc. I can’t see him taking 6 months off tbh. He’s still making a lot of money from the business and his family is set for probably generations so him working is purely a choice borne out of passion.
Healthcare is shit if you’re unemployment / early retiree. No problem with any decent job.
Well, that explains it, it’s a low paid job. I’m talking more about SWE jobs at a FAANG. I can clear interview bar, no problem.
I have two already, but need ideally five. One for each kid. You know, kids are expensive and I have let’s just say additional complications that need the extra cash.
If you have nothing to say on the subject (FatFIRE in Switzerland), just stay out of the thread will you?
Yes I’m pretty pragmatic, ambitious, direct (unless I have a reason not to) person and don’t particularly empathize poverty (I grew up poor, etc). Maybe $1M is the end of your dreams, but it’s a poverty outcome for me.
Oh yes, feel free to redefine words as you see fit with no regard for how the rest of the world uses them.
I don’t really understand what your deal is. Many people have presented paths to you about how fatFIRE on your terms could be achieved, however unlikely those paths are.
What more are you expecting to get out of this thread? Do you hope that someone here will let you in on their get-rich-quick scheme? Do you get off, from belittling other people’s goals and success?
I guess I’m just bitter that the same kind of job as what I do here is paid twice as much and more in the bay today. And there are practically no comparable opportunities here.
Unfortunately I can’t move to the US even if I want to, immigration to US is very difficult right now. I do have a plan though involving CH->UK->US that may allow me to achieve my goal in an acceptable time frame. Just was curious about alternative ideas, but don’t see anything better here. Enjoy your low middle class lifestyle with $1M goal…
Did you also include the federal income tax in your calculations?
Another thing to be careful about is how prices are listed. It’s common for US prices to be listed pre-tax. For services like eating in a restaurant you’ll end up paying 20-30% (tax+tip) on top of the list price.
I admire your goals but I gotta ask, have you actually visited California or the Bay Area?
Yes, US federal tax is roughly similar to the total swiss tax in Zurich. In California you also have state tax - that’s the major extra difference, about 10-13%. And then US also taxes capital gains, but that can be mitigated: don’t sell and don’t overstay till exit tax liability.
Numbeo data is based on user submissions and the submission form asks users to include tax and service, so they should be comparable
Yes. As a visitor, not for work. Wouldn’t want to settle there permanently but for working and making money I still think it’s one of the best place to be in. At leash for a career in tech. Switzerland is far behind.
The problem with Google here is that they’re practically the only well paying tech employer in Switzerland. Yeah technically there’s also Facebook, Apple and Citadel offices, but all are tiny remote offices, a few dozen people each at most.
In the Bay Area the choice is much larger, job hopping every few years is a valid strategy to milk the top dollar out of the system, and Google is not top paying firm today.
Yes, Google is the biggest one, others are small. There is also Amazon with few employees
Like you mentioned before, now it’s quite impossible to have a job in the US without being a US citizen.
The only way is s to work for a US company in Switzerland and be transferred there, or found a company there with a H-1B visa, but in both cases, you’re linked to the employer. They know it and will mostly use it to offer less salary, more work ect.
We can discuss/complain how long we want that the salaries are better in the US (but the quality of life lower from my point of view). There is not a lot to do, unfortunately. Maybe at some points, we need to admit it’s out of reach.
Can you define ”well paying”? That means different things to different people - even in tech. IT jobs in banking and pharma are often considered well paying. Is Google paying that much more?
Whether you do or not, and irrespective of the particular circumstances of that Uber driver:
Calling “electrical engineering” a low-paid job, you must be somewhat detached from the real world.
So is calling Google “the only well paying tech employer in Switzerland”.
(Though what’s wrong with the latter? More power to you, if you can afford it)
I have not been to USA, I’m excited to finally go once the corona mess is over. But I watch YouTube videos, read articles. Based on that, it seems like income inequality is a real issue, racial tensions too. You stay in safe neighbourhoods or risk being mugged. Also the cities themselves are very car centric and dirty. Compare that to Switzerland where you have a ton of lakes and mountains within 2 hours and cities are made to the human scale. So US wins money-wise, and Switerland wins on everything else.
Isn’t that something which is said about every country outside of Europe? I mean yes, Rio or Sao Paolo must be bad in that regard and maybe Mexico in some places. But I would consider the US a full level safer than those. Funnily enough I was once robbed in Vegas but never in Mexico.
That’s not even true. The best suggestion in this thread so far was to marry a Googler and work there too. 500k CHF household income are absolutely realistic. You can expect around 220-400k CHF in regular SWE positions (more in management and tech lead roles). Also internal transfers are relatively easy (also to the US).
However I sense some attitude from the OP which very likely would prevent him from getting into Google or surviving it for long.
How about, say, Facebook E5 - E6 well paying? See Salary Range and Compensation Charts | Levels.fyi for their US bands. Also consider you can have that much in Seatle with much less homeless problems than CA and Zurich-level taxes and rent.
Oh yeah. Banks pay shit. But at least you can be a VP (of nothing) there with that pay
There are a few more ways but yeah none are easy at the moment.
H1B is transferrable between employers
Ok, sure it is a step up from janitors, cashiers or teachers. But not in the same league as doctors, lawyers and software engineers. Maybe a low $100k job. That’s considered low income in today’s California.
Who else pays well? Like at lesat $300-400k well for experienced SWE? I’m still technically on the market (well, I have my UK contract already but my UK visa is pending so can reconsider)
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