Please note that there is today no scientific study or argument to support this assertion. It is only a scenario elaborated by its author.
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Regarding viral load among vaccinated people:12 August 2021 How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says
I think masking and ventilation in indoor spaces are still the most important weapons available.
I agree with Patron that the fact that vaccinated people are now spreading the Delta is a central issue. So the crucial difference now is that vaccination is no longer bringing herd immunization, no longer a protection for the community but ‘only’ for the person who gets the jab. And also not anymore against getting the virus but ‘only’ against death or being seriously hill.
So, it’s still worth it, in my opinion.
Little correction: getting the vaccine now still has a social value: reducing the chance to end in ICU you don’t occupy the bed for someone who needs it for non-Covid reasons.
If I read the publication that you suggest I can find this citation:
““The bottom line is, this can happen — it can be true that vaccinated people can spread the virus. But we do not yet know what their relative role in overall community spread is,” says co-author Thomas Friedrich, a virologist at the University of Wisconsin–Madison.”
To my eyes this potential spread through vaccinated people can be a real problem for New-Zealand or Australia where the zero covid is a strategy.(A vaccinated but contaminated oversea visitor can cause a lot of damage to a covid naive population) In our European countries where a limited propagation was the strategy it should not be a big issue in the growth of the number of contaminated people.
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To Bamboo:
The main problem I see is that if you don’t inform vaccinated people that they still could be getting and spreading the virus as if not vaccinated, they will be wearing the mask less and be more dangerous than cautious not vaccinated people.
The factor of reduction of risk once vaccinated is so high (at least 10) that it is impossible to achieve this degree of protection with a surgical mask and hand disinfection. When you wear your mask in public, there will always be some point where you remove it to drink or eat.
Your argument about lack of caution by vaccinated people had been used by Anne Levy three weeks ago but as head of BAG she only demonstrated her limit of competences.
I agree more with the arguments of Joe Biden in this matter;
How long a waiting period would be fine for you to consider these effects to be fully known and the vaccine safe?
For how long do you think the side effects of “traditional” vaccines were looked at before they were approved? (I mean the ones already available against other diseases)
Example of antivaxer dying, very sad
Patron will reply “big Pharma sponsored propoganda”, anecdotal case”, “he looked a bit overweight”, “probability is low”
Perhaps Vaccine uptake might be influenced by how many similar cases impacting the non vaccinated come up in the coming months with relaxation of measures. I know of one in my extended circle (active 60 year old, 2 weeks on ventilator, not dead)
right on cue !
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You missed the following from your list:
Measles, smallpox, polio, tuberculosis, tetanus, whooping cough
These are accidents.
Is an unvaccinated person dying of covid also an accident?
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Your examples above were mostly accidents.
There are similarities with the Grand Battle of Climate Change here.
Let’s take a book like Unsettled by Steven Koonin: Many aspects of climate change are still not clear, the models are not precise enough to make reliable predictions, political interests are at play, the media are not really good at reporting what the IPCC reports actually say, etc etc.
Nevertheless, I think it’s obvious that we should move towards a more sustainable and cleaner way of producing and consuming energy. We have better use for petroleum than burning it to propel a vehicle. We shouldn’t need a compelling (and frightening) reason to become better at something.
Isn’t it a similar situation with Covid?
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Mate, I don’t get how people is still denying the COVID and the consequences.
I have 3 relatives including the father of my wife that die due to COVID-19.
And yes, people die for a lot of things and people should be self responsible.
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Me neither. It’s ridiculous to deny it.
Is it a hysteria? So you wouldnt agree that humans cause Green House Gas emissions to rise, that they cause the temperature to rise and that we are near a point of no return?
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For translation with a subjective view: “I’m not afraid of COVID-19 and even if I get infected, I will survive easy”. Well, karma had other plan.
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…with seatbelts intended to lower the risk of injury in crashes.
Seatbelts of course can and do have side effects of course.
They may also lead to or increase the severity of (at least some) injuries.
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You already live in a place that the government tell you what you can and cannot do. Normally with punishments when you do something that you cannot. During the centuries the government / religion … has told you what to do. This time is no difference. This has been done to avoid bigger pain in a long term.
To me, a “protest” that
- actively endangers third persons, that ultimately leads to the death and suffering,
- perpetuates a pandemic, and accompanying measures by the government (shutdowns, limitations, test requirements,…),
- is based on anti-science foundations
is not something i deem a legitimate way of “protest”. There is no protest in this. Only defiance.
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cool, we can work with this.
there are some places practically without a state, how about relocating there?
Check out the top places with fewest state around:
- Jemen
- South Sudan
- Syria
- Kongo
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I find it ironic that self named libertarian, anti-vax people are ending up in hospital but the costs get socialised and paid by everyone else
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get vaccinated^^ its that simple.
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