B/ Apartheid system : hmmm I did not know that people are put into prisons for over 20 y without valid reason in Switzerland, subjected to torture, solitary confinment and forced labour.
C/ In what world are you a dissident. You are just someone with an opinion different of the government, elected by a majority. You are not persecuted. And before you come again. No, you are not. End of story and discussion.
Honestly, what are you talking about.
BTW, Sweden tried no restrictions in public life. At some point they admitted it was a mistake. Great Britain : big issues because workers are missing because people are home ill.
But whatever, victimise yourself as a political dissident. Just hilarious.
They are starting to go down, but they definitely weren’t when it was announced. If things go better than expected over the fall I’d expect them to lift restrictions earlier than planned (France is talking about removing the certificates in some places already, Denmark removed all restrictions, etc.)
Going down yes, but much higher than it was in beginning of Summer. And a lot of Cantons have still a reproduction number >1.
And sure, as soon as the numbers go down, opening is happening. BTW, Denmark having a vaccination rate over 80%, seems that the stuff is working
I’m not sure there is much to be gained from engaging with this thread. Unfortunately vaccines have become a polarizing topic. However, I want to share the reason I am happy that the Swiss government has implemented these recent Covid passport requirements.
Unvaccinated people are at higher risk of contracting the virus, thus spreading it.
If you are in an enclosed space with poor airflow (the gym, a restaurant at the table next to me) I want to be sure you have taken reasonable measures to mitigate the risk of spreading covid. If you have refused to take a vaccine which can ~3x reduce this risk and has been approved and recommended by EVERY government health agency in the developed world then you are putting me and my family at unnecessary increased risk.
This is unacceptable and I expect my government to regulate such moral hazards.
I ask you too, what is the alternative? Open up for everyone, allow the r value to rise, hospitals to overflow, and mutation risk to increase? Or perhaps you would prefer to continue more extreme lockdowns for all.
We get out of this pandemic by looking out for each other. You are a potential unknowing carrier. Mitigate the risk for others where you can and expect them to do the same for you. Get the vaccine, wear masks when in enclosed busy spaces, and try avoid unnecessary contact.
With a little hint. When you are black, you stay black, you can’t change it. You can get vaccinated any time. Wooohooo.
No you are not, just prove wrong. Different. And no need to discuss, you are wrong.
Blablabla. Vaccine is proven effective. End of story. Everything else is bullshit. Please move on.
And what a heroic stand you are doing in front of everyone. What a bullshit. still hilarious victimisation.
Yes the vaccine helps a lot at preventing hospitalizations and deaths but it is unfortunately not 100% effective yet. The moral hazard still exists to an unacceptable level.
Let the virus take its course of action with no preventative measures…? Yes we have to learn to live with the virus for the time being. But we also have to minimise and mitigate health & mutation risk while we combat it so that millions more people don’t die.
This argument is false equivalence… Drunk driving and other risks are highly illegal BECAUSE they are a massive moral hazard to others.
The actual equivalent to the government allowing mitigatable higher risk covid spreaders would be if the government decided not to regulate drunk driving, speed limits, etc.
I care very deeply about minimising my risk to others and I would hope that most do. Also I’m sure you are aware that masks are highly effective at reducing spread to others and not as effective at protecting yourself from infection.
I am sorry to hear that you feel so strongly. Maybe with time you will look at it less as a dichotomy and more as an action towards the collective well being of your friends, family, neighbours, and fellow citizens.
I don’t know what people need more to be vaccinated… They are currently more than half billion people vaccinated, I think that if something could go really wrong with this vaccine, we would already know… It the first time that humanity had a large scale of people getting vaccinated with close to zero of secondary effect or health issue…
Whatever, just get infected and then learn by yourself if you can tolerate it or if you will ne close to death And then maybe you will get vaccinated straight after. I’ve been infected, last thing I want was to get infected again.
Just for the lols but still a bit frightning. Some argumentations of the anti measures militants, antivax call them what you want (don’t want to generalize, but you know what I mean) even if they are a bit more argumented then the ones in the video, are so deeply rooted in dogmatic antiestablishment opinions and denial of plain facts that there are some parallels… (I recommend the comment section)
Hehe yes, flat earthers are fully convinced of the same
I’d be happy more people would refer to those guys, in many many other discussions, too.
it is much better than “some facebook/whatsapp/telegram group they said…” or “some angry mob said…” or “some pseudo-scientific guru said…” or “some club of aggrieved people said…”
Yes, you are a textbook victim. But not of the government or scientists, but of some very nasty people.
They are currently more than half billion people vaccinated, I think that if something could go really wrong with this vaccine, we would already know…
Please consult the following link. https://www.adrreports.eu/fr/search_subst.html
Tab ‘Rapports sur les effets indésirables suspectés des médicaments pour les produits’ → C → COVID-19[…] (4 links for 4 western vaccines)
For each of the four links, you can go further. For example, choose the tab ‘Number of individual cases by reaction groups’ then ‘By seriousness’. Or by ‘Number of individual cases for a selected reaction’. Choose any and you can see the number of fatalities. It starts to get interesting when we add the fatalities of each vaccine because there can only be one fatality per person, whereas there can be n serious reactions per person.
There is a fair amount of stuff that is ‘going wrong’ and to mock or minimize the concerns of those who raise objections, is out of order.
Do you understand what the data you link to is? It doesn’t make sense to use the raw numbers, it has to be compared with the baseline rate for a given event.
(hint: correlation and causation aren’t the same thing, that’s why we do science)
(So no, I’m not even sure there’s a single fatality linked to the vaccine, which is amazing given the number of people who had it)
Otherwise we could look at number of fatalities due to watching youtube I’m sure the number is huge.
@Patron It must be such a sad life if you only did activities that revolved around inside locations and that now requires the certificate. There are so many enjoyable social activities that do not require a certificate. I am sure I can plan for you a full set of activities until January to keep you busy and social without the certificate! Take this 4 months to enjoy somethign different. Go to farmer market in swiss plaza, where you can buy local produce and chat with people in a friendly setting. Enjoy a coffe in a terrace - they will be open long into winter and have nice infrared light to keep you warm. Organize a hike in the mountain with friends and enjoy the beeatiful swiss scenery. Let’s meet at a park and play soccer - I used to play for a team and we would train the entire year outside, under rain or snow. It makes you feel good to “withstand” the elements. Join a running or bike club. Buy a boat and enjoy fishing with your best friends on some lake.
In november we can start with Christmas markets - enjoying a warm spiced wine. And we will be able to go to ice skating on outside rinks! Imagine that!
Yes, it’s harsh for people to deviate from their habits. Take these 4 months to try something new -
I think in Switzerland is actually quite easy to live a fullfilling life without gyms, musee and the inside of restaurants for 4 months.
Just a sidenote but have you ever thought about leaving switzerland if you are that unhappy about the government, political decisions and tax in switzerland? Because I hope you do realise that all your ideas of how a state should be run will never happen in switzerland?
So you think you are steering the political system into a more favourable direction by posting a lot of nonsense, wall of texts and extreme views in a forum for financial education?
I will ignore your two questions because I asked you directly as a person and not as a party or group of people.
the amount of insanity is off the chart. I don’t think you really understand what it was like to live in the DDR or USSR. It’s actually offending to compare it to that situation. You are completely disconnected from reality. I do feel sorry that you are so full of hate and despair and truly hope you will find some peace and empathy in the future. It’s truly hopeless and I will ignore your ranting from now on
Patron, I find it sad that you are locked in your dogmatic and reductive vision of the situation, that you feel in an authoritarian and dictatorial country, that you denigrate the press and medias (and Switzerland has a few newspapers of reference that have a recognized deontology) that you function with blinders on, that you are certainly surrounded mostly by people who think like you (Friends of the constitution, SVP, scepics) who inform themselves or re-inform themselves, how they call it, with Facebook or Youtube algorithms or in the marasmus of telegram feeds or RT(!).
Call us sheep, useful idiots for the system, but please, ask yourself from time to time who is being manipulated in the matter and if you would not be going astray in a form of ideological ostracism.
I think that on this forum you are dealing with educated people, some of them with a scientific background, that diversifie their sources of information in order to build a complete picture of the scene. Don’t think that the people here are stubborn and do not question from time to time the measures or any other government decision. Maybe this is one of the reasons why, despite your thousands of posts of dubious argumentation, I have the impression that you will not have succeeded in convincing anyone on this forum and even less in directing the votes for the referendum of November 28.
At some point we must acknowledge that this is not a conversation and rather quite unhealthy. Maybe the best course to help prevent more damages is to stay silent?
Not a conspiracy theorist. Just someone who can‘t - or doesn‘t warnt to - properly assess benefits against risk with the vaccination.
You don’t know what you’re talking about.
What the GDR with its “Ungesetzlicher Grenzübertritt” law did, was restricting its citizens from leaving the country. Does Switzerland make it illegal for its citizens to leave the country and throw them in jail for attempts at doing so?
On the other hand, pretty much every democratic country in the world sanctions illegal entry. And again, pretty much every country does control entry and its borders (with exceptions within various common travel areas). And that often entails sanitary checks or requiring certain vaccinations. It has for decades.
side note: the availability and effectiveness of vaccinations against contagious diseases is the very reason why there’s so few sanitary border controls in developed countries.
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And then maybe you will get vaccinated straight after. I’ve been infected, last thing I want was to get infected again.
I’m sure the number is huge.
