Anyone installed PV on her roof recently, got offers for it or generally follows the market?
I keep reading how the prices of material keep dropping, how supply bottlenecks are over and the market is flooded due to overcapacity.
Yet, the offers I received recently are even higher compared to 3 years ago, in the range of 36k for 12 kWp or 3k / kWp in Zurich. That’s the quoted price, before subsidies or tax effects. There’s no battery or fancy designs.
Price per unit drops with bigger installations, but I don’t want to oversize it.
Some items refer to work that needs to be paid on top and I suspect the estimates are under-estimated, so let’s add some 2-3k for good measure. Examples could include changes on the roof or the building, or inspection and approval of the electric installation.
So I got a whole bunch of questions on the investment cost:
Besides the price offered, does anyone have experience on the additional cost that could come on top, or that I should make sure are included in the offers?
And in general, how does the perception of falling prices generally fit together with these offers? Do I miss something, or is it contractors drowning in full order books and take advantage? Is there room for negotiation? Or any outlook where cost could be in a year or two?
My impression (from eg newspaper) is that it’s installation cost that should dominate, and those are unlikely to come down (esp in Switzerland given cost of labor).
Is there a breakdown between labor and material in the quotes?
I got two itemized ones (one tailored, one general online calculator). They’re a bit difficult to compare due to different sizes and categorization. One lists installation as one item, which includes scaffold, transportation etc. so it’s not really only hourly rates.
Installation, planning etc. 50-60%.
Material incl. construction 30-40%
Others. 10%
Some rule of thumb I found mentioned 30% for installation.
Most quoted a package and some itemized extras like interfaces and software.
Some average cost I found are in the same range +/- 20%. Quite a big range, and likely not too meaningful, assuming cost differences between regions.
I doubt labor cost will go down, but big margins (if there are any?) should, at least in a functioning market.
I’m also considering installing PV, but haven’t started yet my research even. Anyway, thanks for the topic @Brndete!
Hmm, never though about it - is it really doable? I mean, at some point, some electricians would have to be called for connecting/reviewing/documenting stuff?
DIY on Grid installations are also possible. You dont need an electrician to mount the panels. you can connect all the cables until to the string cable going to the inverter. And then the electrician will connect the inverter to the grid
Often Companys installing PV do also require to hire an electrician to do the final connection.
But talk before to the electrician of your choice and be careful on your roof
btw there are organisations called selbstbaugenossenschaften
Yes, you can do everything except the final connection to the grid (unless you want to do that illegally). However, if you want to claim incentives, you might need to involve electrician to certify (and not sure how easy to find one willing to certify a DIY system).
Yes, several offers I’ve seen don’t have that inhouse. It’s mentioned as done by a partner in the package, or included with a target price (over 4k).
DIY is great, but definitely not for us. No way either of us is going up there on that high slanted roof . And you’d still need scaffold, crane, the planning etc.
Self-building cooperatives are an interesting concept, but isn’t it basically organized DIY? You get help, but are supposed to help others in return?
In the end this is why they can charge a lot: few people are willing to go up onto the roof and fewer still willing to punch holes into it to install panels. There’s a big demand/supply imbalance so they are able to price high.
But I don’t expect to put panels on my roof unless:
There is some power emergency that requires it; or
I’m retired and have so much free time I can go do all that.
Another challenge is getting the materials to mount the panels: most distributors will only deal with installation companies.
Actual material costs are very little. I priced up easily less than 10k in material costs - actually closer to half that with some shopping around.
Though if anyone wants to do DIY solar installation in the Basel area. Let me know. Maybe we can work on this together and do our own collective installation!
Some of thew have a tool online to calculate the cost where each position is transparent. At my example (24kwp) labor cost was about 15k. But they offer to tell you how to do it and you can save this 15k. It is your choice.
they offer also workshops where they explain how to plan everything on your own (altought self teaching should be possible)
Reminder: PV installation almost never help in case of black-out/ power emergency.
A typical solar panels home system cannot generate the 50 Hz by themselves; they need the AC sinusoidal from the grid to work.
If you want power in a blackout, you need grid-forming inverter and why more bureaucracy and technical system because it’s way more delicate to switch from island operation to grid -tied operations.
So nobody is installing grid-forming system that can supply your home in case of black-out.
Eventually integrating it with the building automation and playing around to optimize energy usage is a fun factor. But for the go / no-go / wait decision, there needs to be a financial benefit, hence cost is a big factor
It’s really difficult to get an accurate estimation of the ROI. The most important factor is not even sunlight because that averages out over the year. It is the rate at which you are selling back to the operator, and this can vary from one year to the other. Quite difficult to estimate how is going to be in 20 years. There will be dynamic pricing, battery on the grid, much more renewables meaning if they do dynamic pricing on the hour, you will struggle to get a good price at 12:00.
So basically I would take each estimate with a pinch of salt. I would simply recommend to do it only if you are ideologically a fan of solar, and can charge an electric car at home. This more or less guarantees a good ROI in the next 5-10 years.
For purely financial reason, all your calculations today will be meaningless in 20+ years.
In my opinion financially makes sense only if you get a ROI in the next 5-10 years. This means low installation cost as possible, and high self use (electric car). More than that is difficult to estimate.
My father in Ticino paid 18k before incentives for 10 kWp, and has an electric car + is retired.
In 4 years he will have recovered the 12k of his own investment and will be positive from year 5+
That’s what I’m trying to figure out
But yes, I tend to believe there’s always potential.
As Grog wrote, you can make all kind of assumptions even on the existing pricing models on both price of own usage and remuneration from the grid.
I think it will take along time before before we get dynamic pricing, where likely the price is low once the sun is shining.
With the investment cost at hand, you can most likely forget a ROI within 10 years. However, if it’s financed with low interest rates, including resulting tax effects, do you really need to? Even 5% annual return would be benefical.
Indeed, came to the same conclusion. On my roofs I have a potential of 150kwp on my roofs. 25kwp realized since 10y+.
Now I think about adding 20kwp one one of the appartment buildings. One reason is that I hope to get bit lower temperature right under the roof.
I also thought about a BYD Battery. But again, I think keeping costs down is crucial. Better would be get EV Cars and use the built in Timer of the cars to load at 13.00h.
One of the other killer factors for ROI is that we have often fog from November through march.
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. And you’d still need scaffold, crane, the planning etc.
