Indeed, the second wave is starting to be visible in the data and the pace is worrying. That’s why from the 6. July we will have to wear masks in public transport. I’m in Austria now, and here it already is obligatory.
I still remain unconvinced about the effectiveness of masks. The virus is smaller than the mask pores, so how should it help to stop us from inhaling it? The only advantage of mask that I see is that if you sneeze or cough, the air from your mouth is slowed down and it doesn’t fly as far.
Viruses don’t fly by themselves, they travel with the droplets of water everyone produce when talking, sneezing or coughing, droplets which are way bigger than the pores of the mask.
Airflow follows the path of least resistance, said Rachael Jones, an associate professor of family and preventive medicine at the University of Utah who was not involved in the new research. If viral particles are nearby, they have an easy path around a surgical or fabric mask. And in the case of a fabric mask, wearers may well be wafting in particles small enough to flow right through the fabric.
It seems to me that there is no concrete evidence that the cheap material masks really help. You may say, so what, it doesn’t hurt to wear them. But on my first ride in Austria, I have been shouted at through the speaker to wear a mask, because I didn’t know you need one. It just seems off to me, this public shaming and bullying about a measure that has not yet proven to be effective.
@Bojack … here is a text from the article you shared:
One study examined the effect of masks on seasonal coronaviruses (which cause many cases of the common cold) and found that surgical masks are helpful at reducing how much virus a sick person spreads. The other looked particularly at SARS-CoV-2 and found no effect of either surgical or fabric masks on reducing virus spread, but only had four participants and used a crude measure of viral spread."
So a study of 4 people with a ‘crude’ measure of viral spread says no effect of surgical masks.
Oh, it’s misundestanding. I was talking about the surgical masks. Hopefully they stop 99% of viruses and bacteria, otherwise surgery would be way more prone to nosocomial diseases.
Homemade fabric masks never had any chance of stopping anything besides the anxiety of not having a medical grade mask.
Things do not live in a binary world. It’s a probability number games.
Will masks stop the virus? No.
Will wear a mask prevent 100% of transmissions? No
The mask will reduce the probability that you spread your virus-infested saliva when you talk or when you breathe. Reduce. The probability. Is it a 100% effective? No. Is it > 0% effective? Fuck yes. Even reducing the probability to infect by a mere 10% (just making a very conservative random example) could have a large effect on the total count.
So since all is asked is to wear a freaking mask on your 15 minutes bus ride, we could all maybe collectively stop behaving like we are being bullied, and do something that requires minimal effort and can help.
Speaking of being bullied: I have been wearing masks in public since the pandemic hit Switzerland. And I have had a few unfriendly encounters, when strangers criticized me for “overreacting to this ridiculous virus nonsense”. The most disconcerting event was when an elderly man was walking straight towards me in the grocery store, and I got out of his way. He stopped to tell me that I was an idiot who believed everything I was told by the media, that there was no virus, etc etc.
Well not surprising in a world where a lot of people believe things like a faked moon landing, faked 9/11 terrorist attack, vaccines that cause autismn, chemtrails, faked climate change, 5G mind controlling, Earth being flat and the world being only 7000 years old.
Virus not spread in train and supermarket. februar/march for our government mask are useless !
Where are the excuses for all the deaths related to thoses words ?
The time for have some light symptoms is 3/4 days and look the number of cases and days after each weekend
Spread = weekend = no supermarket and not train for most people
Hit the wrong targets not lock down enough quickly for not let enter that in february like south korea. And unlock way too quickly without test everyone for have all cases under control. Send all childrens to school and all people to job for spread quickly the virus to everyone and now we are already in a situation like march can up to 1000 in a short time. People have spend billions for nothing and these people who make those decisiions are going to get their salaries paid for life by people.
And who pay life for that people !
I send email and try to explain to not follow their unlock procedure after very bad management before virus hit us. China have always controlled all how anyone can trust their numbers ?
We know since januar than something big will hit all countries but not have take any measure some country like south korea but not one follow their example.
Can stay in the air for hours. Ventilation is needed and all people shouldn’t be aligned like you can see everywhere because you’re standing right where the virus can be.
Mask is useful for not propagate virus and asian people use them EACH TIME their are sick for protect OTHER. Nobody here educates the population and everyone thinks the cold makes you sick.
Cold can kill you but not make you sick without someone transmitting you a virus.
Not stupid some of these people spend a lot of time on Internet for found that
I think there is so many manipulation from politic media social networks than some people not trust anything and probably more smart than sheep who trust everything without even search on Internet.
Moon landing why they not trust that ? Movies can reproduce almost real thing and since these years no one go again on the moon. I can understand than some people can trust.
9/11 attack some elements are suspicious too a men who conclude an insurance just before. a building who not resist to a crash some people in the last crash compare the pakistan building who resist at this plane. Pentagon where the hole is really small and camera shut down at the exact right moment for view nothing. You probably can understand too these people who have spend hours to search these informations no ?
some vaccines seem have mercury even that was a cure long time ago everyone know that’s very toxic
chemtrails not have search any information about that yet
fake climat change earth never be so quiet than these past thousands years. Look some people looking in the ice earth have a lot of quick temperature change during these past years before humans. We probably not help to keep this stability but we aren’t the only cause
5G you already read the report on sleep issue and fertility due to short wave 1ghz (or less) 2.4ghz (microwave frequency best frequency for heat the food…) ? Not enough study but no one made a bug study for can prove anything one side like other side so yes some people can trust another thing linked to that
earth flat I try to speak with one thinking that’s if flat. wasn’t a success and can’t understand because some clear signs are visible for everyone so can’t defend this point sorry
can’t defend last point too
But you can understand than we are manipulated look cambridge analytica they can change people votes using weak people. The movie dark water show how many years and what should be done for prove than something is highly toxic. These people aren’t stupid monkey. These people take a lot of time more than us and most people for read search that. I can understand than some people can’t trust anything after and you should understand too.
Given this was one month ago, doesn’t it look fairly wrong with what happened with the last set of restrictions lifted end of june and the subsequent increase in cases?
I can see how it might be convincing early june tho
I wouldn’t listen much to Beda Stadler on Covid-19 at all.
I’ll wait until some renowned epidemiologists/immunologists back this. (I think it’s also good to remember that he retired 7 years ago and I don’t think he specialised in viral immunology. But I’m not completely sure.)
He is being disingenuous in this article. He wasn’t panicking about the pandemic, he was downplaying it until the very last days when even the last person began to understand that it wasn’t “just the flu” (see point 2.).
The following quote from this article sums up quite well how he was still irresponsible after being proven wrong by the virus:
“Because dealing with scientific uncertainties causes headaches for many media professionals, they like to let people have their say who take a clear stand and thus sweep the existing uncertainties off the table. An example of this is provided by some statements of the immunologist Beda Stadler. For example, he recently speculated in the “St. Galler Tagblatt” that mild temperatures could reduce the risk of infection or that the virus would become less dangerous if it mutated. Although this is being discussed in research circles, it is still subject to great uncertainty because we still know very little about the new pathogen.
Equally problematic is the statement that the throat sounds of the Swiss-German increase the risk of infection. This is speculation in two respects: Stadler speculates that guttural sounds secrete more microscopic droplets - which is in contradiction to previous investigations - and he speculates that these droplets would lead to infections more frequently than other transmission pathways - which is still unclear.
The reprehensible thing is not that Stadler makes such speculations, but that he does not label them as such - and that the journalists who let him speak do not ask critical questions or ask him about sources for his claims. Although his statements are thus no more or less reliable than the assertions of a layperson, the impression is given that they are based on his scientific expertise.”
The article was originally posted in the “Weltwoche”, which is not known for rigorous fact-checking of their opinion pieces but known for chasing some conclusions in a biased way from time to time.
Oh come on, are we really discussing Beda Stadler now? I had to attend some lectures of him about Immumology back in 2011 and while they were highly entertaining, they didn’t provide any bigger insight about the topic than the corresponding Wikipedia pages.
Journalists love Beda Stadler because he DOES make clear cut, provocative statements that are suited to be headlines.
In my opinion, he’s more of an attention-seeking entertainer than an actual scientist.
Edit: even the title of the article is cringy: “Why everybody was wrong”. And he wasn’t and will never be, of course…
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