And how do you call the siblings and parents of your partner? I think there are no words for it . My boss was explaining me something recently, and he used the words Schwager and Schwiegervater when talking about the family of my gf, was weird to hear these words.
Oh, and isnât it weird how some of us are nearing 40 and still feel like kids compared to our parents when they were our age? Regarding living conditions, interests, clothes. 20 years ago, my parents had 2 teenage kids, a house, a dog, 2 cars, and in my mind they had all stuff figured out. Now it feels like it was just an illusion.
Mine were married, had children, a house and an apparently perfect little middle class life. Turns out later they hadnât all stuff figured out. My sister and I are more advanced on some topics, and less on others.
Our ancestors stumbled as much as we do, itâs important to remember that and not rely too much on others to take action when we are completely able to take charge and handle the chaos that comes with responsibility. The same goes for bosses: some are skilled and well-meaning and deserve respect, some are not. We should not let undue lack of confidence in ourselves prevent us from launching meaningful competition and put them to the challenge.
Thank you for linking this incredibly eye-opening piece by J.K. Rowling, itâs all in there, everything is said. I wish it were a mandatory read for every Twitter userâŠ
For what itâs worth, in the current thread itâs hard to tell who are the overly sensitive people. People seem to be pretty triggered/offended by societal change.
Thatâs fine, you can disagree about society trying to be more fair, or attempts to be more inclusive, nobody forces you to change, itâs not like thereâs a law against it.
Worst case, some people think youâre an asshole, but youâd need to have a pretty thin skin to care about that. Thereâs nothing new, society has always evolved (hopefully to become better), and some people are always reluctant and pushing back.
Many people experienced having older relatives with fairly backwards opinions at family reunion. When those people grew up, their behavior was probably normalized, and then it wasnât.
They chose to not evolve, and I guess thatâs fine, not like you can force them anyway. And you can still think theyâre assholes nonetheless.
Sidenote: btw I donât know if the mods intended to take side when they picked the title, but the current meaning of woke is sarcastic/pejorative (long gone are the days were it was used among black US activists):
By 2021, woke had become used almost exclusively as a pejorative, with most prominent usages of the word taking place in a disparaging context. The term woke [âŠ] became a large part of Republican Party electoral strategy.
It might be trying, but my point is, itâs failing. To make it clear once more, I am not against society becoming fairer. Only that fairness for me is defined as equal individual rights, whereas wokeism is about collective rights, in violation of individual rights. Thatâs not âinclusiveâ, thatâs authoritarian. I am not âtriggeredâ by societal change, I am âtriggeredâ by the erosion of individual freedom.
These Neanderthals unfortunately exist of course and many US-Republicans are a visible part thereof. There are extremists on both sides, all of which dangerous for democracy and human rights, and they feed off each other, escalating each otherâs extremism and squeezing liberal society in the middle.
Very nicely put, thanks! To me itâs puzzling how any doctrine can call itself liberal, when it is sacrificing individual freedoms to protect or âreimburseâ collective groups, who were once discriminated by the society.
Your individual traits donât matter, what matters is how privileged or underprivileged your ancestors have been, and based on this you should be judged. Horror.
I think the US far right redefined it as anything they donât like in left wing values, it doesnât have a specific meaning anymore. You can call it left wing values if you want I guess.
Same as above, wokeism doesnât mean much, it became a totem word for all left-wing values. Do you mean improving representation in media? Or highlighting uncouscious biases? Or giving more opportunities to historically under privileged people?
Straw man much? I donât think itâs about judging you, itâs about being aware of power dynamics and how people experience things differently (or have more things stacked against them).
If itâs feels threatening to you, Iâm not sure what that reveals. Have you ever talked to other people about their experiences? Itâs pretty interesting, ask a women vs. man how they feel when being in public space, how their experiences might differ, same for people of color, etc.
The Economist called it the âilliberal leftâ and that is quite a good description.
Less eloquently, I am less against the ends, but more against the means of what the illiberal left / wokists want.
I am against electing politicians because of their gender / skin colour / sexual orientation. I am against hiring people because of these criteria. I am against choosing interview partners, or actors, or translators, or authors, or anyone in any role because of sexist or racist criteria. I am against censorship, I am against forbidding people to have certain haircuts, or play or listen to certain music or cook certain food. I am against ignorance, against doublespeak, against bad science, against destroying the livelihood of people, against threatening their families, because they dare speak out loud objective facts or have a different opinion.
And @Bojack was spot on. The key thing to the illiberal left and why they are so dangerous is that their ends, what they are aiming at, sound so nice superficially. Not so different from the last mass-movement of the illiberal left, communism, which promised heaven on earth, for the masses. With the âslightâ disadvantage that mass murder and the elimination of individual freedoms were the means to achieve that. No, I am not saying that wokists are mass murderers. They are aiming more at the restriction of individual freedoms, even though their extremist elements are also threatening and sometimes committing violence.
Out of curiosity what are your favored means then? Or you also disagree with the ends or the assessment that some groups are having a lot more obstacles thrown at them along the way?
Or youâd rather keep the status quo? I guess itâs convenient when weâre not the ones being heavily impacted.
Equal individual rights, guarded by no discrimination, open, fact-based debate, science, fairness and tolerance. In theory and in practice.
As for the âstatus-quoâ, that has changed massively and is vastly different at different places and for different people @Bojack is mentioning some features of this new status quo. The status quo also includes, for example, woke activists hounding out a professor and terrorizing her wife and children because sheâs stating biological facts.
And this âstatus-quoâ is defined by selective racist and sexist criteria and by averages, both of which obscuring vast individual differences. A white man might well face more obstacles than a black woman, if, say, he is born in poverty, short, shy, bald and profusely sweating, while she is tall, confident and born rich. Or not, since both are individuals and their circumstances might differ and might or might not be depend on any of the above criteria.
Not only are the criteria racist and sexist, outcomes based on them are distorted to fit into the woke narrative. Have a guess, which new Swiss pensioners have a higher pension on average, unmarried men or unmarried women? That is todayâs over-60s, who have lived and worked in the âoppressiveâ past for decades.
The correct answer is, as per the Swiss Statistical Office: Unmarried women. That might be the most surprising and thus interesting piece in the corresponding press release, but of course, it was rather hidden away. And of course, as per law, women need (at least until this autumn) to work one year less than men for their pension.
But I think these left wing values have a lot in common. They are pushed by the most extreme activists (only a bunch of people) and they are slowly moving the frame of what is thinkable, acceptable, and finally the norm. The majority of the society accepts this, because they donât want to be called racists or bigots or chauvinists.
I was part of this wave, because it appealed to me to ridicule the catholic church or national pride. But now we should also ridicule toxic masculinity, entrepreneurship, being white.
To me these âleft wing valuesâ are self-contradictory. In general, they should be about tolerance and fighting negative discrimination. But by introducing positive discrimination, they eventually end up discriminating against the non-privileged. The pendulum has swung from one side to the other, without stopping in the middle.
Honestly, not. I donât know any lgbtqxyz people, or racial minorities close enough (or at all), to ask such sensitive questions. I feel like itâs a taboo now and a can of worms that I would rather not open.
But if you wonder what it reveals about me that Iâm afraid of ideas like âeat the richâ, âsafe space for black people onlyâ, âyou canât wear thisâ, âif your kids wants to change their gender, you canât stop itâ⊠well, I guess it reveals that I am a terrible person or sth, idk.
Not sure where I was supposed to put this rant, but I need to get it off my chest. Iâm in Zurich now, examining the aftermath of Street Parade. Itâs incredibly full of trash and broken glass everywhere. It stinks of beer and piss. Green and private areas violated.
I donât understand why the people of Zurich want to invite the decadent youth to devastate their city. I have zero respect for people who litter, piss in public, go wild like thereâs no tomorrow. Would prefer if they went elsewhere to party.
To get wasted and do drugs. Itâs similar to making a house party when parents are away to appeal to the âcoolâ kids, a d get your place trashed. Do you want to appeal to these kids in the first place? I think the city should promote positive behavior.
I didnât want to get involved into this discussion, but this is coffee section, so:
Was it dirtier than after other big events? Football UEFA final or any other football event? And how do you measure it? Do you have objective quantitative parameters? This is not a nagging question, the city cleaning services might have quantitative data.
How much of your irritation is caused by actual garbage produced in this event and how much by your attitude towards LGBwhatever people? Donât blame yourself if the latter is significant, think instead. We all are products of our education and culture and it is extremely difficult to get over what you have learned as a child.
The patriarchal society in the history of humans appeared as a result of development of agriculture and domestication of animals. So what does nature wants?
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. My boss was explaining me something recently, and he used the words Schwager and Schwiegervater when talking about the family of my gf, was weird to hear these words.
I donât think itâs about judging you, itâs about being aware of power dynamics and how people experience things differently (or have more things stacked against them).