Buying crypto for Swiss residents [2023]

Investing / Cryptocurrencies
42

The BTC withdrawal fee at Kraken went down to 0.00005 BTC, which is still too high for me. What works for me last few months for weekly BTC purchases in small amounts (thanks everyone for your tips):

  • Transfer EUR to Bitstamp (free)
  • Buy XRP for EUR (no fees for small monthly volumes, low spread)
  • Transfer XRP to Coinmetro (0.02 XRP, negligible)

Then an “expensive” part starts. There is a XRP/BTC trading pair, but the spread is so high that I prefer to

  • Sell XRP to USD (0.1% fee, significant spread)
  • Buy BTC for USD (0.1% fee, low spread)
  • Withdraw BTC to a self-hosted wallet (0.15% fee).

All in all the purchasing costs accumulate to around 0.5%, but there is no fixed cost!

For ETH I didn’t figure out anything better than

  • Transfer EUR to Gemini
  • Buy ETH for EUR (0.4% fee, low spread)
  • Accumulate ETH for few months
  • Wait for Sunday morning when most people are sleeping and ETH transaction fees are low.
  • Withdraw ETH to a self-hosted wallet (network fee).
3 Likes
43

It was too good to be true and it’s gone. From November 1st they have fixed withdrawal fees. BTC withdrawal will be 0.0004 (yes, 3 zeros).

Now it is back to Kraken as I don’t see anything better.

  • Regularly transfer small amounts in CHF, buy BTC.
  • Withdraw via Lightning network to my mobile Exodus wallet (free).

From time to time:

  • Check news for problems at Kraken,
  • Deposit accumulated BTC via Lightning network
  • Withdraw on the base level.
1 Like
44

Yes, they decided to change after 5 years.

Bear markets…

45

Also gone

On November 21, 2023, we’re ending our no trading fee promotion, which previously applied to 30-day trading volumes of less than $1,000.

Well, looks like now it is Kraken as a ramp-on.

46

Bitcoin blockchain mining fees somehow went down to a lowest level in many months. I have some long pending transactions being confirmed on Sunday, and the fees remain at the same level until now.

If you need to transfer BTC on chain, now it’s a good moment.

47

I will take a moment to share my experience with Lykke.

Somehow I was sceptical before but now I am using it for many months for a general on-ramp, transfer of funds into the crypto ecosystem, and I am very satisfied.

  • CHF, EUR deposits and withdrawals: free (min 50 of each).

  • CHF trading pairs on many coins. I have not explored everything, using only BNB/CHF and XLM/CHF.

  • The spreads that are quoted in the order book are actually higher that what I am getting. I trade small amounts, for the best bid and offer prices the half-spread is always around 0.1%. Otherwise, there are no other trading fees.

  • The crypto withdrawal fees are not that little.

My workflow is as follows:

  • Deposit CHF by a Swiss bank transfer.
  • Buy XLM/CHF
  • Withdraw it to my Bitfinex account
  • Sell XLM for USDT.

Most coins I buy at Bitfinex, especially those with no withdrawal fees.
BTC I buy at Kraken for CHF and transfer out via Lightning Network.
BNB I buy directly at Lykke, the withdrawal fee is acceptable.

Moreover, it is possible at Lykke to buy EUR for CHF with the spread of a bit less than 0.1%. This is less than the built-in spread at Revolut and no limits on how much you can exchange, obviously. I tested it, first EUR transfer out (free) took few days (compliance, obviously), the next one went faster.

I wouldn’t transfer a large amount of money to a crypto exchange for the purpose of currency exchange, but if it is few hundred at once, the risk is very limited.

1 Like
48

Also take advantage of this to consolidate your transactions. Especially if you have been DCA-ing for a while and withdrawing in chunks.
Basically create a new address in your preferred wallet and transfer all into that new address in one go.

Better now than in the future when fees are high.

49

You transfer BTC using ligthning network to your software wallet? and if yes any specific software wallet you recommend?

50

I am personally using aqua wallet by jan3. I like it because you have bitcoin + lightning and liquid + tether. Easy to use

1 Like
51

I am not such a pro, but: I am using mobile Exodus wallet as the second wallet / main mobile wallet. The main reason is that I know it. When it comes to Lightning Network, there is actually Wallet of Satoshi inside.

I am also testing mobile Phoenix, because it can transfer BTC from the Lightning Network to BTC base layer, and this is what I am testing. Otherwise there is a 0.4% fee for Lightning transfers, which I don’t want to pay, of course.

P.S. There is no Lightning support in the desktop version of Exodus, @mabi

52

Interesting, never heard of that one. I still use the Electrum wallet which so far proven to work fine. I want to try to avoid an app on the phone for that purpose.

53

This is interesting. I might withdraw a few CHF to that wallet to have it as spending money whenever Lightning is accepted.

Never got around to setting up LN on my side but it was/is one of the features I am most excited about, mostly because of scalability and micropayments.

54

Anyone wants to take a look?

1 Like
55

Interesting.

A short TL:DR is that PostFinance is offering its costumers the chance to buy, trade and hold 11 cryptocurrencies directly in the PostFinance app/site.

More details will come tomorrow. I guess it will depend on how big the fees are. I understand that this goes into the initial philosophy as most cryptos (not your keys, not your coins) but like the ETF it is a simpler and safer way for other people to dip their toes in the crypto water.

56

Backed by Sygnum

57

How are Coinbase trading and withdrawal (to own wallet) fees compared to Kraken/Binance nowadays?

Kraken still seems the cheapest regarding trading?
But for withdrawal perhaps not that much (e.g. 0.0002 BTC).

58

I withdraw from Coinbase 0.0127 BTC with just the network fee of 0.00003601 BTC. I don’t see any other fees or a minimal fee for this transaction.

59

To buy BTC, I continue to transfer a fixed CHF amount via a standing order to Kraken, buy BTC with it and transfer BTC via Lightning Network to my mobile Exodus wallet. I might deposit EUR instead if there is an excess left after vacations, but the procedure is basically the same.

I have also wrote that I am exploring options for depositing accumulated BTC to my base layer BTC address and testing mobile Phoenix Lightning wallet (https://phoenix.acinq.co/), specifically the transfer of BTC from the Lightning Network to the BTC base layer. Recently there was a period of lowish BTC fees and I have used Phoenix to transfer BTC accumulated in the Lightning wallet of Exodus to the BTC base layer.

The Lightning transfer of BTC from mobile Exodus wallet (Wallet of Satoshi inside) to Phoenix wallet requires a BTC mining fee. This is because Phoenix is a “true self-custodial” wallet and there are no channels already opened. Phoenix shows the expected fee for opening a new channel (essentially, for depositing funds into the wallet) and you can also put a limit on how much is allowed to be deducted as a mining fee. My target was to pay not more than 0.1% of the transferred amount. Obviously, I can either accumulate longer or wait for a period with lower mining fees.

The procedure is following.

  • First setup in Phoenix the maximum channel open fee that you are ready to pay:

Settings → “Channel Management”.
Select “Automated channel management”.
Set “Max fee amount”.

The same place shows an estimation of the current deposit fee.

  • Open “Receive” in Phoenix, “Lightning” tab is the first one that opens by default.

If you press “Edit” and put some amount to transfer, Phoenix shows a warning if the current fee limit is too low.
If you press this warning, you can also see the estimation of the current deposit fee.

  • Copy Lightning link (lnbc1…).

A transfer from Exodus worked without an indicated amount (Edit), but, for example, to deposit BTC from Kraken to Exodus, I have to indicate the amount to transfer, otherwise it fails.

  • Open Exodus, Lightning wallet.

Select “Send”, paste the link (Invoice or Address).
Select the amount you want to send if not set (all). Continue until it is send.

  • After transferring BTC to Phoenix via Lightning, open “Send”, select “Manual Input”, input BTC address on the base layer.

Probably a QR code can be also scanned.
Press OK.

  • Then, you can select what fee you are going to pay for a transfer from a Lightning channel to BTC base layer.

I did this step just after depositing and have selected a fee in sat/vbyte which is just enough to fit my transaction in the next block (https://mempool.space/).
If you have managed to transfer funds to Phoenix cheaply, the second step should be not more expensive than the deposit.

  • Send the transaction. It should be confirmed in the first block.

The whole procedure resulted in a total transaction fee of less than 0.2% and, most importantly, I was able to avoid using an exchange, that means depositing BTC via Lightning Network and withdrawing to the base level address.

2 Likes
60

Thanks for this

I am looking to setup my lightning wallet when I have time and this will come in useful.

1 Like
61

I have just discovered that crypto can be bought on interactive brokers. The fee is really low 0.18%
Anyone has already try?