Buying crypto for Swiss residents [2023]

I will take a moment to share my experience with Lykke.

Somehow I was sceptical before but now I am using it for many months for a general on-ramp, transfer of funds into the crypto ecosystem, and I am very satisfied.

  • CHF, EUR deposits and withdrawals: free (min 50 of each).

  • CHF trading pairs on many coins. I have not explored everything, using only BNB/CHF and XLM/CHF.

  • The spreads that are quoted in the order book are actually higher that what I am getting. I trade small amounts, for the best bid and offer prices the half-spread is always around 0.1%. Otherwise, there are no other trading fees.

  • The crypto withdrawal fees are not that little.

My workflow is as follows:

  • Deposit CHF by a Swiss bank transfer.
  • Buy XLM/CHF
  • Withdraw it to my Bitfinex account
  • Sell XLM for USDT.

Most coins I buy at Bitfinex, especially those with no withdrawal fees.
BTC I buy at Kraken for CHF and transfer out via Lightning Network.
BNB I buy directly at Lykke, the withdrawal fee is acceptable.

Moreover, it is possible at Lykke to buy EUR for CHF with the spread of a bit less than 0.1%. This is less than the built-in spread at Revolut and no limits on how much you can exchange, obviously. I tested it, first EUR transfer out (free) took few days (compliance, obviously), the next one went faster.

I wouldn’t transfer a large amount of money to a crypto exchange for the purpose of currency exchange, but if it is few hundred at once, the risk is very limited.

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Also take advantage of this to consolidate your transactions. Especially if you have been DCA-ing for a while and withdrawing in chunks.
Basically create a new address in your preferred wallet and transfer all into that new address in one go.

Better now than in the future when fees are high.

You transfer BTC using ligthning network to your software wallet? and if yes any specific software wallet you recommend?

I am personally using aqua wallet by jan3. I like it because you have bitcoin + lightning and liquid + tether. Easy to use

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I am not such a pro, but: I am using mobile Exodus wallet as the second wallet / main mobile wallet. The main reason is that I know it. When it comes to Lightning Network, there is actually Wallet of Satoshi inside.

I am also testing mobile Phoenix, because it can transfer BTC from the Lightning Network to BTC base layer, and this is what I am testing. Otherwise there is a 0.4% fee for Lightning transfers, which I don’t want to pay, of course.

P.S. There is no Lightning support in the desktop version of Exodus, @mabi

Interesting, never heard of that one. I still use the Electrum wallet which so far proven to work fine. I want to try to avoid an app on the phone for that purpose.

This is interesting. I might withdraw a few CHF to that wallet to have it as spending money whenever Lightning is accepted.

Never got around to setting up LN on my side but it was/is one of the features I am most excited about, mostly because of scalability and micropayments.

Anyone wants to take a look?

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Interesting.

A short TL:DR is that PostFinance is offering its costumers the chance to buy, trade and hold 11 cryptocurrencies directly in the PostFinance app/site.

More details will come tomorrow. I guess it will depend on how big the fees are. I understand that this goes into the initial philosophy as most cryptos (not your keys, not your coins) but like the ETF it is a simpler and safer way for other people to dip their toes in the crypto water.

Backed by Sygnum

https://www.sygnum.com/news/postfinance-launches-crypto-partnering-with-sygnum/

How are Coinbase trading and withdrawal (to own wallet) fees compared to Kraken/Binance nowadays?

Kraken still seems the cheapest regarding trading?
But for withdrawal perhaps not that much (e.g. 0.0002 BTC).

I withdraw from Coinbase 0.0127 BTC with just the network fee of 0.00003601 BTC. I don’t see any other fees or a minimal fee for this transaction.

To buy BTC, I continue to transfer a fixed CHF amount via a standing order to Kraken, buy BTC with it and transfer BTC via Lightning Network to my mobile Exodus wallet. I might deposit EUR instead if there is an excess left after vacations, but the procedure is basically the same.

I have also wrote that I am exploring options for depositing accumulated BTC to my base layer BTC address and testing mobile Phoenix Lightning wallet (https://phoenix.acinq.co/), specifically the transfer of BTC from the Lightning Network to the BTC base layer. Recently there was a period of lowish BTC fees and I have used Phoenix to transfer BTC accumulated in the Lightning wallet of Exodus to the BTC base layer.

The Lightning transfer of BTC from mobile Exodus wallet (Wallet of Satoshi inside) to Phoenix wallet requires a BTC mining fee. This is because Phoenix is a “true self-custodial” wallet and there are no channels already opened. Phoenix shows the expected fee for opening a new channel (essentially, for depositing funds into the wallet) and you can also put a limit on how much is allowed to be deducted as a mining fee. My target was to pay not more than 0.1% of the transferred amount. Obviously, I can either accumulate longer or wait for a period with lower mining fees.

The procedure is following.

  • First setup in Phoenix the maximum channel open fee that you are ready to pay:

Settings → “Channel Management”.
Select “Automated channel management”.
Set “Max fee amount”.

The same place shows an estimation of the current deposit fee.

  • Open “Receive” in Phoenix, “Lightning” tab is the first one that opens by default.

If you press “Edit” and put some amount to transfer, Phoenix shows a warning if the current fee limit is too low.
If you press this warning, you can also see the estimation of the current deposit fee.

  • Copy Lightning link (lnbc1…).

A transfer from Exodus worked without an indicated amount (Edit), but, for example, to deposit BTC from Kraken to Exodus, I have to indicate the amount to transfer, otherwise it fails.

  • Open Exodus, Lightning wallet.

Select “Send”, paste the link (Invoice or Address).
Select the amount you want to send if not set (all). Continue until it is send.

  • After transferring BTC to Phoenix via Lightning, open “Send”, select “Manual Input”, input BTC address on the base layer.

Probably a QR code can be also scanned.
Press OK.

  • Then, you can select what fee you are going to pay for a transfer from a Lightning channel to BTC base layer.

I did this step just after depositing and have selected a fee in sat/vbyte which is just enough to fit my transaction in the next block (https://mempool.space/).
If you have managed to transfer funds to Phoenix cheaply, the second step should be not more expensive than the deposit.

  • Send the transaction. It should be confirmed in the first block.

The whole procedure resulted in a total transaction fee of less than 0.2% and, most importantly, I was able to avoid using an exchange, that means depositing BTC via Lightning Network and withdrawing to the base level address.

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Thanks for this

I am looking to setup my lightning wallet when I have time and this will come in useful.

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I have just discovered that crypto can be bought on interactive brokers. The fee is really low 0.18%
Anyone has already try?

I was not allowed to buy few years back. Not from Switzerland. But maybe it’s a settings issue.

Yeah UK has restrictions on crypto trading and CH resident are at IB UK.

Tho iirc there were talks to change those UK regulations, so that might change.

UK is not on the list but Switzerland is. I’ll give a try

Is there eligibility criteria linked to residency to trade cryptocurrency?

Individual, joint or trust accounts (including most clients of Financial Advisors) and organizational accounts (excluding three tier structures and non-Fully Disclosed Brokers) from the following countries might be eligible to trade cryptocurrency under either the Basic or Plus Cryptocurrency trading permissions:

  • United States
  • Aland Islands
  • American Samoa
  • Andorra
  • Angola
  • Anguilla
  • Armenia
  • Argentina
  • Aruba
  • Azerbaijan
  • Bahamas
  • Bahrain
  • Barbados
  • Belize
  • Benin
  • Bhutan
  • Bonaire, Sint Eustatius and Saba
  • Botswana
  • British Indian Ocean Territory
  • British Virgin Islands
  • Brunei Darussalam
  • Burkina Faso
  • Cambodia
  • Cameroon
  • Cape Verde
  • Cayman Islands
  • Channel Islands and Jersey
  • Chile
  • Colombia
  • Costa Rica
  • Curacao
  • Djibouti
  • East Timor
  • Ecuador
  • El Salvador
  • Eswatini
  • Faeroe Islands
  • Falkland Islands (Malvinas)
  • Fiji
  • French Guiana
  • French Polynesia
  • Gambia
  • Georgia
  • Ghana
  • Gibraltar
  • Greenland
  • Grenada
  • Guadeloupe
  • Guam
  • Guatemala
  • Guernsey
  • Honduras
  • Jamaica
  • Jordan
  • Kazakhstan
  • Kenya
  • Kiribati
  • Kuwait
  • Kyrgyzstan
  • Lao People`s Democratic Republic
  • Maldives
  • Marshall Islands
  • Martinique
  • Mauritius
  • Mayotte
  • Micronesia, Federated States of
  • Monaco
  • Mongolia
  • Montenegro
  • Montserrat
  • Namibia
  • Netherlands Antilles
  • New Caledonia
  • Nicaragua
  • Norfolk Island
  • Northern Mariana Islands
  • Oman
  • Palau
  • Panama
  • Papua New Guinea
  • Paraguay
  • Peru
  • Philippines
  • Pitcairn
  • Puerto Rico
  • Republic of Korea
  • Republic of Moldova
  • Reunion
  • Rwanda
  • Saint Barthelemy
  • Saint Helena
  • Samoa
  • Serbia
  • Seychelles
  • Sint Maarten
  • Solomon Islands
  • Sri Lanka
  • Switzerland
  • Taiwan
  • Tonga
  • Trinidad and Tobago
  • Turks and Caicos Islands
  • Tuvalu
  • Uganda
  • United Republic of Tanzania
  • United States Virgin Islands
  • Uruguay
  • Uzbekistan
  • Viet Nam
  • Zambia

All eligible clients may request “Cryptocurrencies” trading permissions in Client Portal. However, final approval will be determined by Cryptocurrency Service Providers. Trading is limited to the primary user on the account.

Please Note

  • Trading of cryptocurrency is not offered in IRA accounts or tax wrapper accounts such as ISA or SIPP in the UK.
  • Added users of eligible accounts with “Cryptocurrencies” trading permissions are not permitted to place cryptocurrency trades.
  • For eligible Financial Advisors, underlying clients must also reside in an eligible country in order to hold or trade cryptocurrency.
  • Clients who are nationals of prohibited countries but are residents of an approved country are able to onboard to Paxos and trade cryptocurrency.

All exchange and custody services in connection with trading and holding cryptocurrency tokens and other digital asset tokens through IBKR trading platforms are provided by Cryptocurrency Service Providers. Learn more.

Thanks for the hint, just wrote a ticket to activate cryptos for me as well.

Already got an answer:

Dear Mr. xerox5003,

Our system reflects that your account is under IB-UK entity. Cryptocurrency permissions are available under IBLLC-US entity for Switzerland residents.

Please note trading in crypto currency is available for legal residents of Switzerland only under IBLLC-US entity.

In order to trade cryptocurrency, you will be required to start a new application from the IBKR web site (www.interactivebrokers.com) with an alternate email address and follow the steps:
-Select the red OPEN ACCOUNT button followed by the red START APPLICATION button to get started

  • Create a Username, Password, enter your email and the Country/Region - Switzerland
  • There will be a pop up box on the screen asking for the trading permissions in Crypto currency > Select to trade in Cryptocurrency for your account to open under IBLLC-US entity.
  • Follow the remaining system prompts entering each required field before selecting SAVE & CONTINUE from the bottom-right corner of the Application.

Once your new account under IBLLC-US entity is opened, you may then request for Full Internal Account Transfer from IB-UK account to your new IBLLC-US account by sending a webticket request.
Please note the Full Internal Transfer is a Manual process, and under normal circumstances, takes 3 to 4 weeks to complete, subject to review.

Additionally, we are working on enabling the cryptocurrency trading for IB-UK clients, but we cannot give the exact time frame for it.

Kind regards,

=====================

Maybe I will wait. Or do you know the impacts/benefits/drawbacks from switching from IBRK UK to IBRK US?