Isn’t the difference just the ‘RE’? You’re either retired or not and this is pretty clear. Arguably, the missing option is non-early retirement.
I mean the difference between FI and FIRE is that FIRE you have actually retired early. Whereas with FI you are still working.
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What I think Listlot meant is that if you’re FI but are still working, you don’t need to compute anything, since you’re not eating into your savings yet. So the mindset is very different. The transition from being FI (meaning in theory having enough to stop working) to actually enjoying it (by retiring) can take a while.
Another way to say this: are you really FI if you don’t dare do the next step?
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Definition is pretty clear:
Financial independence is the state of having sufficient personal wealth or passive income to cover all living expenses without needing to work or rely on others.
I don’t think anyone would claim that Warren Buffett was not Financially Independent until this year just because he was working until then! 
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(While my wife is still building up her business)
I guess we’re in the SINK! 
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I think this transition from FI to FIRE is one of the most interesting parts. You have extreme examples like Warren Buffett who has vast wealth but delayed RE. His partner, Munger, died and didn’t even retire, let alone RE.
So people can postpone retirement because they love their job, don’t want to be bored, or feel a sense of duty etc.
But then we look at another important case: those who want to RE but are not confident to pull the trigger. Here a delay between FI and RE is delaying what they want. This case is perhaps much more interesting and has a lot behind it too.
This can be interesting for those struggling to move from FI to FIRE: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2018/03/09/money-and-confidence-are-interchangeable/
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very cool article, particularly the Recipe For Badass Confidence. thanks for sharing!
Good distinction to make. I’ve started separating FI and FIRE intentionally, financial independence is the actual goal, early retirement is just one possible outcome, not the point.
What I keep missing though: a Swiss-specific number that actually combines AHV, pension fund and pillar 3a into one clear answer. Most FIRE calculators are US-centric and the 4% rule without factoring in AHV just does not translate well here. Anyone found something that works for the Swiss three-pillar reality?
American article, american audience. If you read with that in mind you’ll understand that it makes sense there but not here.
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I think the article is written with some people in mind who have doomsday fears e.g. I can’t fire because if it all goes wrong I will be homeless and living on the streets.
This is highly unlikely since if you have developed yourself and your network you will always be able to get a job, ok, maybe not the best job in the world, but something that lets you survive.
Unless you are living ultra-frugal, you have control of your budget and can flex it.
And moving doesn’t mean different city/country. It could be downsizing to reduce budget.
I gave an example here where someone took control of their life and finances and this was with 4 kids.
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You are CHILL: Comfortably Husbanding In Low Labor Lifestyle
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Very important point. When you have family/dependents FI and RE must take into account those people („We“). Not only financially but also from a mindset and confidence perspective. You cannot fire without having those people fully aligned mentally and financially.
The points in this list are not a given no brainer. Many of them require a good portion of confidence if there is not a „s€)t ton of money“. I guess thats his key point. If „we“ decide that adopting a FI(RE) lifestyle with less than the „ risk free“ amount of money. „we“ need to be have the confidence in those points to cope with financial uncertainty this can bring.
E.g
Will kids be fine? - from a financial/basic needs/education perspective very likely yes ( but sure not from all problems life will bring..). Much more likely in CH than in the US.
Can we move - if you as a family prioritized FI(RE) higher than the convenience and guarantee to live exactly how and where you want for how long you want - yes you can absolutely move on.
Can you always find a job if needed? - very likely. Particularly when you combine it with the confidence to be able to learn any new skills. It also requires confidence and potentially sacrifice.
And so on. I would argue risking FIRE is much safer in switzerland than in most other countries in the world especially much safer than in the US.
To be frank, I absolutely dont feel fully confident in all the points mentioned in the recipe. But I think it helps to understand where one can build out confidence in order to declare FI(RE) earlier - not because you have more money - but because you feel confident with less.
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I think that is written from a first person POV for the reader. MMM has a kid and divorced around the the time he wrote that article.
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That was an amusing reply, but unfortunately complete off the mark.
I am not sure exactly where the complaint that you phrased – “people without or other credentials … are too loud” – is phrased as complaint in my post.
No complaint stated from me. Check above. I only stated the facts: many more people not FIREd make lots of noise about how to FIRE, including for those who have FIREd.
You can check how many people are actually FIRE in the poll I have created: Are you FI or FIRE? (March 2026). So far 5 FIRE. Including one who created his/her account less than 24 hours ago.
I hope other forum members who are FIRE will respond, too. And as already I said
BTW, it looks like long time FIREd member @oslasho perhaps left the building, too.
At least I can not find most of his posts anymore.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Phew, I was a little worried! Glad you’re still around!
While everybody seems amused or excited about your sudden reply, defying my suspicion about you leaving the forume, do you want to say anything about why most (?) of your posts disappeared?
No need to reply, of course.
I just feel silly stating that most of your posts disappeared and then you reply out of the blue. Yet still most (or many) of your posts have still disappeared?
Olasho always deletes his posts after 1-2 days. Thats how he works and I do understand it. Its quite a good way of protecting his data whilst participating the community
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Really? Wow, that’s … ok, I guess I was wrong.
I guess it’s more like a self-deleting WhatsApp chat when I discuss with him on this forum … 
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One of the not-quite-yet-fired people here. I wonder what will attract me to this forum after RE. Some self-help exchanges about how best to spend the time without gainful employment? Listening to conversations and giving wise advice? Spending a lot of time here creating content to save on newspaper subscriptions and create a semblance of a social life?
The way to FI and RE was what attracted me personally to this forum but I do not see much personal benefit for the time after retirement (in 3 years or so). Especially, as a lot of context is lost through text and as I will prefer IRL encounters with more time on my hands.
One thing that will change with retirement is the asset allocation. There no longer is the monthly amount to invest but a desire to keep the capital intact and resilient. Some realistic ideas how to create sustainable cashflow from capital gains will always be appreciated. Well, we’ll see how the situation here ages.
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I think it is useful to discuss with other people to see what they are doing as different people have different approaches and you can learn something and integrate it into your own approaches.
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