Anyone using findependent? (Swiss robo advisor)

Investing / Brokers
1

Hi all
I recently stumbled over findependent while searching for a (non-3a) robo-advisor solution for a friend (see Robo Advisors comparison on Moneyland).
My first impression is good:

  • all-in-fees 0.44% which is among the lowest of free-market robo advisors (correct me if you know a lower one)
  • Vanguard FTSE All-World :wink: and mostly decent available ETFs
  • allows for individual ETF picking (other than for example TrueWealth)

What do you think?
anybody knows about some allocation percentage limits?

2

Looks good. Not too expensive, FAQ has very good answers. I think I saw this website some time ago, but wasn’t impressed that time.

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3

Isn’t that basically paying 0.44% annually on bog-standard ETF portfolios?

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4

yes it

yes it is.

However that friend needs a fire-and-forget solution, with zero recurring actions required by him. Hence a robo advisor that supports recurring payments (Dauerauftrag). He is not realistically going to be involved in buying ETFs himself. So I try to find the next best thing for him :slight_smile:

other suggestions welcome

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5

Well, at least they don’t charge a custody fee - or do they? Yuh are also offer recurring investments, as do many of the German “discount brokers” - which have a much larger range available of ETF in savings plans. Many of them also offer the accumulating IE00BK5BQT80 of the Vanguard All-World ETF, e.g. Flatex (for free in a savings plan) or Smartbroker (0.80 per execution).

Even if you’re not optimising costs of currency exchange and just funding this with a SEPA standing order from your bank account, it should be less expensive over the mid to longer term.

6

I’ve tested Selma Finance, it was a good experience. However, you can’t chose a strategy or the ETF you want to invest in.

There is also Avadis, but they are more expensive with their 100% equity solution: 0.63%.

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7

Next to the FTSE All-World it says „Maximalgewicht 100%“. Einfach eigene Anlagelösung erstellen - findependent

The limit can be seen for every other ETF on the list as well.

IMO it looks like a decent set-and-forget option on top of a 3a account.

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8

Ah I was not aware of those columns. thanks for pointing out!

9

If it doesn’t have to be a Swiss bank, Trading 212 could make sense. Lots of ETFs without commission and without custody fees (not in CHF, though). Auto-invest is possible even with multiple ETFs, e.g. to invest 90% in Vanguard Developed World and 10% in Vanguard EM for an average TER of 0.13% p.a. The only fees would be 0.15% currency exchange, as far as I can tell. I’m not using it myself, though, so I might be missing something. And they lend out your securities to finance the zero commission trades. I also don’t know whether they have a CH IBAN for wire transfers.

10

As the SIX-Version of the FTSE All-World is distributing, I asked myself what’s going to happen once the distribution hits the account. So I asked findependent.

They get automatically reinvested, once the amount is high enough (I believe it’s 100 CHF). If you time your regular investment right after the distributing-day, everything gets invested altogether.

Now since the All-World distributes in USD, you will have to pay exchange fee on the distribution part of the reinvestment, right?
Answer: NO !!
Findependent waives the charging of exchange fees in that case. IMO that’s super nice for the casual investor.
So since the All-World is in CHF, you won’t have to pay currency conversion fees at all. :slight_smile:
Obviously stamp duty (0.15% for foreign ETFs) is due.

11

This sounds good but that saves only about 0.01% p.a. (2% x 0.5%), compared to the total fees of 0.44% p.a.

12

Dang, you are right. I haven’t even done the calculation.
Just seemed too nice. :grimacing:

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13

Has anyone tried it?

Thinking about switching my GF from IBKR to this. It would be much easier for her as I constantly need to help her with investing.

14

Will probably choose their solution for my sister as I like the idea, their product and the people behind it a lot.

I’ve done a little calculation on how much the fee would be compared to yuh, Swissquote and IBKR. I used 4% interest and 2k investment per month as an example.
You can draw your own conclusion. :slight_smile:

image
image1814×693 144 KB

EDIT: One thing that’s interesting is that according to this video they plan to launch a fee scale this year (video in Swiss German), meaning that the fee should become cheaper for higher amounts.

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15

BTW: Is the IBKR: Recurring Investments available! - Investing / Brokers - Mustachian Post Community not an option for your GF?

16

No as her monthly investments vary.

17

I have checked out their solution a few months ago, but decided against it. One reason was the FX markup of 0.5% which is IMO ridiculous compared to IB or other Swiss robo advisors (just VIAC is also at 0.5%, others are way lower: Finpension 0 (because they trade everything in CHF), True Wealth 0.1%, Selma 0.25% just to mention a few others).

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18

As you can see from my chart, it makes almost no difference if a one-off fee is paid at the time of the transaction. :wink:

There are also good options in CHF like the FTSE All-World ETF.

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19

Your chart is very nice! Thanks for sharing. What tool have you used for creating it? I would like to play around with it with other provides, also in the 3a area.

For Findependent, you have not added the FX markup in the chart, right?

There are also good options in CHF like the FTSE All-World ETF.

That one is available with Findependent? Do you have the ISIN at hand?

20

That is Excel, I can send it to you.

Correct, I calculated with a CHF-solution, which is what I would do if I invested there.

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All of the available ETFs can be found here: Create your own investment solution - findependent