Zugerberg Finance review?

Hi everyone,

My accountant recently told me that I could spare, aside from my usual rather passive and DCA portfolio, to invest into Zugerberg Revo 5 or 6.

As I’m not a big fan of these financial investment companies I went here:

then in their brochure:
https://zugerberg-finanz.ch/download/broschuere-revo/?wpdmdl=79499

and saw 4.75% Rendite and 1.25% Verwaltungsgebühr which don’t make me too confident (high Expense Ratio vs Vanguard US ETFs, low gains compared to overall of something even more generic like VT Total World).

Does anyone have any experience or gave this company a try?
I’m usually super reluctant to VZ, Zugerberg and all such similar Swiss enterprises that “help you maximize your income” especially given their fees and promised gains being not better than what you can do on your own.

Thanks,
Mihai

I’ve got 2 thoughts:

  1. I wouldn’t trust my accountant to give me investing advice. Accounting and investing are two very different things (I wouldn’t trust my nutritionist to perform surgery on me either, for example).

  2. From their website, they state that “Implementation mainly takes place by means of individual titles, except in the area of bonds (transparent collective investment instruments).”

I would want the opposite: active investment in stocks very, very seldom manages to consistently beat the market and even fewer managers, if any, manage to do so while also beating the drag their fees generates. Furthermore, we consider stocks as mainly a risky investment designed to generate adequate returns on the longer run. They focus on the returns part of the equation.

Bonds, on the other hand, are usually used to address the risk part of the equation and risk shouldn’t be addressed as only a measure of investment volatility. Credit risk is very different than market risk and different durations will present a different risk/returns profile that should be tailored to the need and personal situation of the individual investor. Furthermore, different bonds will have different tax treatments that can be optimized.

In my opinion, bonds can benefit from insightful and knowledgeable active management. When it comes to stocks, though, we’re far more likely to deal with people skilled at marketting than actual genious managers willing to work with low investment sums.

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In general, if you are happy with your current investment strategy, then maybe best is to continue. What part of this offering is particularly intriguing for you?

If none, then I guess , it’s best to pass :slight_smile:

In general, wealth management firms are not bad. If someone doesn’t have investment experience or is not going to do it on their own anyways, then it’s still better to work with a wealth manager instead of fixed deposit account. But that doesn’t seems to be your case.

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Thank you both!

@Abs_max you’re right, nothing from this wealth management company is intriguing to me or seems to provide an advantage over my own portfolio.

I also expressed myself wrong initially…my accountant yes, but he works for a financial planning and advisory company so that’s why I gave some thought to this idea.

My passive / monthly investment portfolio is quite clear to me.
For my smaller 1/5 from total amount that I want to devote to some stock picking I still need to finish reading up a few books to get me started and not screw up with evaluating companies, industries and trends/developments.

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Hey all. A tax advisor also tried to sell me the Zugerberg Finanz Repo plan.
I was looking for a good 3a pillar and I asked him about VIAC 3a or frankly but he told me that with the
Zugerberg I would make more profit and I would pay less taxes.

I am trying to do my own research but I unfortunately I do not have enough time for now, so some opinions would be useful for me: I understand that comparing it to investing it is somehow below, but for somebody that looks for a good 3a pilar would you choose Zugerberg over Viac?

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Did you ask them 1) what the investment fees are 2) if they were gaining anything if you subscribe

No.
Just skip it.
(And consider going for finpension, no forced 40% CHF exposure)

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Regarding the “paying less taxes” part, does it involve you not being in Switzerland anymore when you intend to withdraw your 3a assets? If not, I fail to see how there’s any additional tax advantage to be gained from one 3a solution to another and would consider that just plain bad tax advice.

Edit: if yes, then the tax domicile of the 3a fundation indeed matters. Finpension is optimizing in that matter and may or may not offer better tax treatment than a 3a solution in the canton of Zug would.

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I think there the “advisor” is correct -
Due to OP ending up with a significantly smaller final amount in their 3a pillar if going with Zugerberg, the tax amount due upon withdrawal would be smaller too. :grin:

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I don’t quite understand which plan are we talking about

But the one at link below have total 1.45% (1.25% asset management fees and 0.2% bank fees)

Revo plan

Since it’s an actively managed fund (Revo) , the costs are high. So this would come down to your willingness to choose active fund or passive (ViaC, Finpension index options with lower TER) or low cost active (Frankly)

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Zugerberg is a very interesting case to showcase where active management goes wrong. They have for years posted very attractive returns where You could wonder how they make them (with the given asset allocation). Surprise surprise, upon the interest rate reversal, theyr bonds crashed very hard. What went wrong? They in my view took on „ordinary“ shares but combined them with very risky bonds. Be it high duration or other risks that were not visible at first. So the perform turned terrible. I am sure that in a few years, they will again focus on their 5 years return and claim superior performance.

Learning: there is no free Lunch and „smart“ active investors give you a dream return but with low fail risk that you only see materializing once it was too late.

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